22 WALDOG

[Mulligan]

Rick,
It will shoot fast, but for me, around about 3350 FPS works better.
CW

 

[STS]

The classic powder for the Waldog was T-322 which was demilled military ammo. It would get to the 3500 FPS node that really made the cartridge competitive. That powder was designated 8208 and the current 8208 was created in an effort to duplicate it. It would certainly be worth a try in addition to the N-133.

 

[Greyfox]

The classic powder for the Waldog was T-322 which was demilled military ammo. It would get to the 3500 FPS node that really made the cartridge competitive. That powder was designated 8208 and the current 8208 was created in an effort to duplicate it. It would certainly be worth a try in addition to the N-133.

Interesting. No disagreement here as I know little about it and wasn't around at the time. But it was my understanding that Lou Murdica had T 322 cloned to make LT 32. Am I mistaken?

Rick

 

[STS]

I don’t think you’re mistaken at all. I’m not sure if LT 32 predates IMR 8208 or not. What I am sure of is that the demilled 8208 was so good that more than one business sought to capitalize on the reputation that it earned. That powder was nothing short of magic in most environmental conditions.

 

[boltfluter]

Update

This little cartridge is super fun and amazingly accurate.

About a month after the first Waldog barrel was chambered, I ordered another reamer. This one i ordered from JGS with a .253 neck, BTW, they worked with me on every detail and were super helpful start to finish. The new reamer will allow for .013” neck thickness and still have .003 total neck clearance.

In Aug, of ‘21 the new reamer and three new Kreiger 1:12 LV barrels arrived and it was time for a trip to see Dan.

In late Aug, I took the new barrel out and formed about 30 pieces of brass.
BTW, I found that LT-30 and H322 are fantastic for fireforming waldog brass.

Until yesterday, that is where the project sat.

Landsend Benchrest Club (Whitewater Colorado) has a club shoot every month. I decided to screw that new waldog barrel on and go see what I could learn.
At this time my original Waldog barrel has near 1000 rounds on it and I have learned a great deal. I shot it in several matches and placed better than I have ever placed in this short range game.

This brass has only been fired one time, so it needed at least one more kick in the pants to get fully formed. With a new lot of N-133, I took three loads to the bench and 3 sighters for each load. With 8 rounds of 23-5, 25.0, and 26.0, I headed for the bench, this was a warmup target, so I had a mulligan built in.

23.5 was ok at best
25.0 looked promising
26.0 was a touch spicy, I could feel it the bolt lift and had no interest in going here with new brass.

I tried lots of combinations of powder charge weights, and bullet seating depths throughout the day but each time I shot the changed vs what I had used on the last target, the new changed load did not stack up. As it ended up, I shot all five targets with the exact same powder, charge weight, bullet, seating depth, primer, etc, etc,
25.0 gr of N-133 fueling a BIB 52gr bullet.

View attachment 1294361
I still pretty much suck at short range BR, but this target was exciting to shoot. The rascal that leaked out was my second shot. When I finished the string I was super excited to see the fifth shot go through that same hole.
This was my best target of the day.

View attachment 1294362
Targets in order they were shot.

CW

edited to fix spelling error.
CW

25.00 grains was my exact load in the winter months!! 23.5 was the equivalent in the summer.

Paul

 

[Mulligan]

25.00 grains was my exact load in the winter months!! 23.5 was the equivalent in the summer.

Paul

I shot 23.5 during Saturday's match. It was my first few shots, then I tried 25.0 and it was a little tighter.....not much. I also tired 26.0 and had a little, not much, but a little firmer bolt lift and just didn't want to go there with new brass. What a great little round.
CW

 

[No manches"]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a waldog? What parent case does it use..
Would you be kind to post a picture?..

 

[Mulligan]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a waldog? What parent case does it use..
Would you be kind to post a picture?..

The parent case of a Waldog is a 220 Russian.
It is essentially a 6PPC shortened by .125”
CW

 

[Mulligan]

 

[Mulligan]

 

[jimmymac]

@Mulligan, I’m reading a bit on the Waldog now from a Precision Shooting mag excerpt from 1983. It lists H322, H335, 748, 4895 and 4198 for powder. Long time ago, so take with a grain of salt. Interesting though. I bet H322 would be pretty damn good.

 

[Mulligan]

@Mulligan, I’m reading a bit on the Waldog now from a Precision Shooting mag excerpt from 1983. It lists H322, H335, 748, 4895 and 4198 for powder. Long time ago, so take with a grain of salt. Interesting though. I bet H322 would be pretty damn good.

I think the Cactus has been won a couple of times with the old BL-C (not BL-C2) powder. The Super-Shoot has been won with H4198 and N133. I have done well with N-135, LT-30, LT-32, H322, and now N-133 in my 12 twist Waldogs.

CW

 

[Mulligan]

Just tried N-530 in the Waldog.
It looks promising, anyone else tried this with any success?
CW

 

[Mulligan]

Update....
Still loving the Waldog

Check this out

Shout out to Charlie Hood

For those of you who shoot 22's, you will be pleased to know that another bullet has entered the market...... or maybe I should say, re-entered the market. Charlie Hood has Allie Euber's set of 22 bullet making dies and is now making 52gr match bullets. He also plans on making some 60 grain...

forum.accurateshooter.com

These Hood/Euber 22's are awesome.
CW

 

[ASbobcat]

I'm confused.

The historical information is very interesting. "Designed to approximate the capacity of the 222Remington".

So why not a 222Remington instead of all the custom dies and trouble making brass?

Holding off on a 222 project until I hear a good reason to do the Waldog.

 

[Evan]

I'm confused.

The historical information is very interesting. "Designed to approximate the capacity of the 222Remington".

So why not a 222Remington instead of all the custom dies and trouble making brass?

Holding off on a 222 project until I hear a good reason to do the Waldog.

For short range, this may not be a compelling reason but at long range my 222 has some tendency to vertical fliers that I can’t get rid of. 223 FTR shooters fight this too. My 22 PPC doesn’t suffer the same vertical challenges, even when downloaded to the 222 speeds. I’m not antsy to do it yet, but it’s in my plans to build a Walldog with a 7 twist barrel and 0.100” freebore to shoot the 90gn bbllets at 2660-2680fps ( a low node that has shot in the 222, 22 PPC, and the 22 BR).

 

[ASbobcat]

For short range, this may not be a compelling reason but at long range my 222 has some tendency to vertical fliers that I can’t get rid of. 223 FTR shooters fight this too. My 22 PPC doesn’t suffer the same vertical challenges, even when downloaded to the 222 speeds. I’m not antsy to do it yet, but it’s in my plans to build a Walldog with a 7 twist barrel and 0.100” freebore to shoot the 90gn bbllets at 2660-2680fps ( a low node that has shot in the 222, 22 PPC, and the 22 BR).

I'm looking for a lighter recoiling cartridge than my 6BR for 100-200yds. So I'm looking at the 222 as the "Easy button".

I have a theory about the vertical fliers. I think it can be explained by more consistent ignition with the small flash hole, reducing ES/SD. The 222 with a large flash hole held the World Record group at 100yds for a long time, but ES/SD doesn't really become a factor until further downrange..

 

[Evan]

I'm looking for a lighter recoiling cartridge than my 6BR for 100-200yds. So I'm looking at the 222 as the "Easy button".

I have a theory about the vertical fliers. I think it can be explained by more consistent ignition with the small flash hole, reducing ES/SD. The 222 with a large flash hole held the World Record group at 100yds for a long time, but ES/SD doesn't really become a factor until further downrange..

Possibly, but not in my experience. Norma 222 has small flash holes. It shoots no different at any distance than the large-hole Lapua brass.

Chronograph reveals the vertical fliers have large velocity swings. I have sorted brass by weight, segregated and checked H2O capacity of brass that shot “fliers”, and still it occurs. I just don’t know what does it. I can take Norma 22 PPC brass and shoot it as is without these problems. Same with Lapua and Peterson 22BR.

 

[Mulligan]

I'm confused.

The historical information is very interesting. "Designed to approximate the capacity of the 222Remington".

So why not a 222Remington instead of all the custom dies and trouble making brass?

Holding off on a 222 project until I hear a good reason to do the Waldog.

Good question

The answer is, all the short range BR shooters had changed all their bolt faces over to accept the PPC, because of course........ it was winning.
Then folks wanted to go back to shooting a 22. Well Dan Dowling did what any good wildcatter would do and shortened a case to approximate the volume of a deuce and called Harrell's and had them shorten a ppc die. Presto chango......... the WalDog was born.
The Harrell's die is a bushing die, so a 6 and a 22 can be used. I am not sure what Harrells charges for shortening a die, but it ain't much and it will be in your hands pretty darn quick.

I am sure I butchered the history a bit. I will try and dig up the real history.
I think the son of the man ( Waldo G Woodside) that the WalDog is named for is a forum member????
I believe Waldo purchased the first rifle of this chambering from Dan?

CW

Just thinking, I bet @jamesdmock knows a bit of the history of the WalDog.

CW

 

[ASbobcat]

Possibly, but not in my experience. Norma 222 has small flash holes. It shoots no different at any distance than the large-hole Lapua brass. Chronograph reveals the vertical fliers have large velocity swings. I have sorted brass by weight, segregated and checked H2O capacity of brass that shot “fliers”, and still it occurs. I just don’t know what does it. I can take Norma 22 PPC brass and shoot it as is without these problems. Same with Lapua and Peterson 22BR.

Thanks, interesting. I was wondering if Norma had small flash holes. Do you turn the necks on your 222 and PPC to the same thickness?