22 ppc
- Thread starter brian923
- Start date
As the legend goes, Dr. Palmisano originally was looking for a super accurate varmint cartridge. He teamed up with Ferris Pindell and the rest is history. The 22 PPC was first, but as you probably know, the 6 PPC was right on its heals and has taken all the accuracy accolades ever since. Today, the 22 PPC is almost considered dead, but not me, I have 2 and they shoot very well. The ballistics are like the 223 Rem on steroids.
You can shoot anything you want with a .224 diameter, but the 22 PPC seems best suited for 50-60 grain bullets although, I'm sure it would give a good account of itself with any bullet weight. It seems to share the inherent accuracy the 6 PPC is renown for. You can easily get in the 3500+ fps range for the 50-55 grain bullets. So, the good Doctor got exactly what he wanted, in spades.
You can shoot anything you want with a .224 diameter, but the 22 PPC seems best suited for 50-60 grain bullets although, I'm sure it would give a good account of itself with any bullet weight. It seems to share the inherent accuracy the 6 PPC is renown for. You can easily get in the 3500+ fps range for the 50-55 grain bullets. So, the good Doctor got exactly what he wanted, in spades.
Kent
You're close on the PPC history. Actually, Dr. Lou was shooting a 6mm varmint wildcat based on a shortened 220 Swift case which was almost identical to the current PPC. When he happened upon some SAKO 220 Russian brass, then almost unknown in the USA, he had his reamer reground and used the SAKO brass instead. He took his cartridge to Super Shoot II where he was promptly rebuffed but happened to run into Ferris Pindell who was working on a similar cartridge based on a shortened 308 case. Together they chambered two rifles using the SAKO brass, one in 22 and the other in 6mm and then, as you said, the rest is history.
The 22PPC is actually a little on the big side for 22 caliber and the shorter versions such as the Waldog produce the same velocities with better accuracy.
Ray
You're close on the PPC history. Actually, Dr. Lou was shooting a 6mm varmint wildcat based on a shortened 220 Swift case which was almost identical to the current PPC. When he happened upon some SAKO 220 Russian brass, then almost unknown in the USA, he had his reamer reground and used the SAKO brass instead. He took his cartridge to Super Shoot II where he was promptly rebuffed but happened to run into Ferris Pindell who was working on a similar cartridge based on a shortened 308 case. Together they chambered two rifles using the SAKO brass, one in 22 and the other in 6mm and then, as you said, the rest is history.
The 22PPC is actually a little on the big side for 22 caliber and the shorter versions such as the Waldog produce the same velocities with better accuracy.
Ray
Brain
What Kent said and what Ray said but there is another P in the PPC. Dan Pawlak bench tested the PPC in his ballistic lab looking to maximize the combustion characteristics of the little dynamo.
The cartridge is far from dead as 22 cal has never left the BR scene. Also the 22 PPC makes an excellent small game choice.
As far as twist choices for BR barrels they are going to be 1-14 or 1-15. I have both. Some of my buds have gone 1-8 twist to use bullets up to 80 grn.
Not really sticking my neck out I would consider the 22 PPC I have my best 22 cal. And it does the job of a 6 cal maybe as well.
But seriously Brian let's hear what you know about the 22 PPC.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
What Kent said and what Ray said but there is another P in the PPC. Dan Pawlak bench tested the PPC in his ballistic lab looking to maximize the combustion characteristics of the little dynamo.
The cartridge is far from dead as 22 cal has never left the BR scene. Also the 22 PPC makes an excellent small game choice.
As far as twist choices for BR barrels they are going to be 1-14 or 1-15. I have both. Some of my buds have gone 1-8 twist to use bullets up to 80 grn.
Not really sticking my neck out I would consider the 22 PPC I have my best 22 cal. And it does the job of a 6 cal maybe as well.
But seriously Brian let's hear what you know about the 22 PPC.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
well, the same as said above, but i only found reloading data for light weight bullets. i can get my .223 in my colt compition hbar to reach 3200 fps with really good shot placment at 200 yards. i have shot m.o.a out to 200yrds. with that being said, its only a little slower then the 22 ppc with the same weight bullets. i was wanting to know if there was an advantage to the ppc case in regaurds to shooting heavy weight bullets. my AR with a 1-9 twist seems to love the 55 grn moly v-max. but i am looking for something with speed and weight and accuracy.,maybe 75-80 grn.) that would fit in the AR plateform, and still get good results in ballistics.
in regaurds to hunting, i like the advantages of shot placement over overwhelming knock down power. it seems to make you have to try harder to take your game.
i am trying to see whitch would be a better cartrige chose. the 22 ppc, or the 6 m ppc,
which brings me two another question. would a 16 or 18 inch barrel still provide good to very good accuracy and velocity in the 6 mm ppc case. i am looking at maybe an m-4 style carbine in the 6 ppc if it would work. but, if the advantages are not in the short barrel, well, we'll just have to see
thanks guys, brian
in regaurds to hunting, i like the advantages of shot placement over overwhelming knock down power. it seems to make you have to try harder to take your game.
i am trying to see whitch would be a better cartrige chose. the 22 ppc, or the 6 m ppc,
which brings me two another question. would a 16 or 18 inch barrel still provide good to very good accuracy and velocity in the 6 mm ppc case. i am looking at maybe an m-4 style carbine in the 6 ppc if it would work. but, if the advantages are not in the short barrel, well, we'll just have to see
thanks guys, brian
Forum Boss
Administrator
Cheechako said:
Boyd Allen tells me a few guys here in California have had good success running a full capacity 22 PPC. The key to matching the Waldogs' accuracy was running a 1:15 twist,vs. 1:14) and pushing the bullets faster, into the next higher node. Lou Murdica also shoots a plain 'old 220 Russian, no mods, and I've personally witnessed him beat a field of 6PPCs and win a match with it.
I just write this to suggest that we haven't yet exhausted the development potential for 22 cases in short-range BR. There are still lessons to be learned.
Paul
I'm one the California shooters that has had good results with a full length 22 PPC. Shot .1800 aggs at 200 at Visalia and Phoenix back to back. I am in the process of making 22 bullets for June's SW Regional Unlimited at Visalia. I have also won many San Gabriel trophies with my 22, mostly .21 and .22 aggs. The full length 22 PPC is as good or better than any variations.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
I'm one the California shooters that has had good results with a full length 22 PPC. Shot .1800 aggs at 200 at Visalia and Phoenix back to back. I am in the process of making 22 bullets for June's SW Regional Unlimited at Visalia. I have also won many San Gabriel trophies with my 22, mostly .21 and .22 aggs. The full length 22 PPC is as good or better than any variations.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I have had 4-22 PPC's in 14 twist and built one in a 9 twist
and 8- 6 PPC's with multiple barrels each. After shooting competition for a while I started using them on ground squirrels and p. dogs. Both cartridges are very accurate to say the least.
Shooting a 5 gallon bucket of loaded ammo through each rifle on a p. dog trip,brass made from PMC 7.62x39 brass) I can tell you that when it comes to barrel life, the 6 PPC wins hands down over the 22 PPC when using H335. Something about this powder is very special in a 6 PPC in how clean it burns along with extreme accuracy. I put 10,000 rounds through a barrel and it would still agg in the high 2's with 60g bullets jumping quite a ways,the first barrels were throated for 68's).
The 22 PPC had the trait of loosing MORE accuracy as the leade grew away from the bullet seating depth while the 6 PPC would still maintain more of the accuracy as the bullet started to jump.
I Shot a 220 Russain owned by Glen Price on several occasions and it was a very impressive cartridge to say the least. The argument between the 22 and the 6 usually ending up being settled by what happens at 200 & 300 yards where the 22's seem to drag their feet.
While were are on the subject of 22's, I have owned several 223 AI's. I can tell you for a fact that 223 Ai loaded with high quality brass will shoot right with a 22PPC with at least 200fps+ advantage over the 22 PPC when loaded with n133 or n135. It would really blow the BR world to see how this cartridge performs in top notch rig.
and 8- 6 PPC's with multiple barrels each. After shooting competition for a while I started using them on ground squirrels and p. dogs. Both cartridges are very accurate to say the least.
Shooting a 5 gallon bucket of loaded ammo through each rifle on a p. dog trip,brass made from PMC 7.62x39 brass) I can tell you that when it comes to barrel life, the 6 PPC wins hands down over the 22 PPC when using H335. Something about this powder is very special in a 6 PPC in how clean it burns along with extreme accuracy. I put 10,000 rounds through a barrel and it would still agg in the high 2's with 60g bullets jumping quite a ways,the first barrels were throated for 68's).
The 22 PPC had the trait of loosing MORE accuracy as the leade grew away from the bullet seating depth while the 6 PPC would still maintain more of the accuracy as the bullet started to jump.
I Shot a 220 Russain owned by Glen Price on several occasions and it was a very impressive cartridge to say the least. The argument between the 22 and the 6 usually ending up being settled by what happens at 200 & 300 yards where the 22's seem to drag their feet.
While were are on the subject of 22's, I have owned several 223 AI's. I can tell you for a fact that 223 Ai loaded with high quality brass will shoot right with a 22PPC with at least 200fps+ advantage over the 22 PPC when loaded with n133 or n135. It would really blow the BR world to see how this cartridge performs in top notch rig.
Keith
I can't place you in So Cal BR but I didn't know them all. I did know Glen Price since he started BR back in 75 and considered him on the fence most of the time. Since Glen became his own smith I'm sure he tried several cartridges leaning more towards the 6x47, actually trying to keep the 6 PPC out of BR competition, yeah sure.
The 22 PPC the original does fine at 200-300 whether competition any target or Varmint. Read what Mr Palmisano said in Fadala's book on 22 Rifles and then read Fadala's comments.
I have a Hart barrel 1-14 twist 22 PPC with over 14,000 rounds through it that will has recently agg'd in the mid 2's.
I see no limit to the PPC cartridge, death is only with the shooter somebody else will shoot that barrel just fine.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
I can't place you in So Cal BR but I didn't know them all. I did know Glen Price since he started BR back in 75 and considered him on the fence most of the time. Since Glen became his own smith I'm sure he tried several cartridges leaning more towards the 6x47, actually trying to keep the 6 PPC out of BR competition, yeah sure.
The 22 PPC the original does fine at 200-300 whether competition any target or Varmint. Read what Mr Palmisano said in Fadala's book on 22 Rifles and then read Fadala's comments.
I have a Hart barrel 1-14 twist 22 PPC with over 14,000 rounds through it that will has recently agg'd in the mid 2's.
I see no limit to the PPC cartridge, death is only with the shooter somebody else will shoot that barrel just fine.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Edwin
Yes Edwin all PPC cartridges start at one time with 220 Russian cases. OAL is the same or what you trim it too. Shoulder angle becomes 30 deg when fire formed. Powder capacity takes a spike up. Accuracy improves over a 220 Russian. I might get in trouble with some of my shooting buds so I better quit.
My smith on this barrel Bob Sutton is beyond doing chambering anymore. I would like to get that reamer if he wanted me to have it. Bob did a dozen 22 & 6 PPC barrels for me. I think the long life of the barrel is due to my cleaning methods that I wrote about here on 6mm BR and the fact that it is a Hart barrel. The barrel was my 1st BR barrel chambered back in 1975 in .222 Rem. The barrel started as a 26" HV taper barrel typical of BR barrels back then. When Bob worked on it the barrel had about 500 rds through it. I wanted a LV gun in 22 PPC. He said oh boy. He cut me a barrel taper like he said he never did before. The Hart barrel became a 23" LV taper with a 22 PPC chamber. This was BR heaven for me. I had several 6 PPC barrels that shot most everything else but when I wanted to punish the boyz I put the 22 PPC barrel on. Not sure how many teen aggs I shot with the barrel but mostly low 2's like .21-.23. Like I said earlier I have over 14,000 rounds through the barrel. Don Jackson said it looked like an alligator farm but he could only find 1 small trace of cooper. Anybody that claims .1 aggs like eatin popscicles is not to be believed. Even the best in our Sport only can claim 1 or 2 a year. The rest of the claimers are just that claimers.
The 2 powders I most always worked with were N133 and H322. Before I made my own 22 bullets about 98% Berger 52's.
Edwin the barrel is a 1-14 twist the standard twist for a 22 BR barrel. My new 22 Krieger is a 1-15. I will have this one chambered this year for 22 PPC. I have a 1-14 Hart 1.35 22 PPC on my Rail. Also a 1-15 Krieger 1.35 22 PPC for the same Rail. I have a 21 1/2" 1-15 Krieger 22 PPC on my LV also. So I guess I have 5 BR barrels in 22 PPC. They all shoot better than the 220 Russian's talked about here.
The only dead 22 PPC barrels belong to dead shooters. Most shooters are not capable of handling such a good barrel and will never have the experiences I have had with mine.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Yes Edwin all PPC cartridges start at one time with 220 Russian cases. OAL is the same or what you trim it too. Shoulder angle becomes 30 deg when fire formed. Powder capacity takes a spike up. Accuracy improves over a 220 Russian. I might get in trouble with some of my shooting buds so I better quit.
My smith on this barrel Bob Sutton is beyond doing chambering anymore. I would like to get that reamer if he wanted me to have it. Bob did a dozen 22 & 6 PPC barrels for me. I think the long life of the barrel is due to my cleaning methods that I wrote about here on 6mm BR and the fact that it is a Hart barrel. The barrel was my 1st BR barrel chambered back in 1975 in .222 Rem. The barrel started as a 26" HV taper barrel typical of BR barrels back then. When Bob worked on it the barrel had about 500 rds through it. I wanted a LV gun in 22 PPC. He said oh boy. He cut me a barrel taper like he said he never did before. The Hart barrel became a 23" LV taper with a 22 PPC chamber. This was BR heaven for me. I had several 6 PPC barrels that shot most everything else but when I wanted to punish the boyz I put the 22 PPC barrel on. Not sure how many teen aggs I shot with the barrel but mostly low 2's like .21-.23. Like I said earlier I have over 14,000 rounds through the barrel. Don Jackson said it looked like an alligator farm but he could only find 1 small trace of cooper. Anybody that claims .1 aggs like eatin popscicles is not to be believed. Even the best in our Sport only can claim 1 or 2 a year. The rest of the claimers are just that claimers.
The 2 powders I most always worked with were N133 and H322. Before I made my own 22 bullets about 98% Berger 52's.
Edwin the barrel is a 1-14 twist the standard twist for a 22 BR barrel. My new 22 Krieger is a 1-15. I will have this one chambered this year for 22 PPC. I have a 1-14 Hart 1.35 22 PPC on my Rail. Also a 1-15 Krieger 1.35 22 PPC for the same Rail. I have a 21 1/2" 1-15 Krieger 22 PPC on my LV also. So I guess I have 5 BR barrels in 22 PPC. They all shoot better than the 220 Russian's talked about here.
The only dead 22 PPC barrels belong to dead shooters. Most shooters are not capable of handling such a good barrel and will never have the experiences I have had with mine.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Erwin re-read the first part of my Post to you I added what you asked.
Stephen
Stephen
I bought a factory Sako single shot in .22 PPC back in 1991 or so. It has been a fantastic rifle for me. I don't own a BR rifle or anything like that so the Sako has been my "most accurate" rifle since I bought it. I load it with H322. I tried a couple others when I first got it but H322 was so good that I just stayed there.
In a factory Sako, the light bullets are all that will work for me. That's been my only complaint with the rifle. In our wind,Oklahoma) it would be nice to be able to use heavier bullets. My rifle shoots best with 52 grain match bullets. 55 grain bullets start opening things up. Not huge but not the amazing accuracy of the slightly lighter ones. I never even went beyond 55 grain after noticing that.
And what a trigger on that rifle....
I consider it a 300 yards or closer rifle in our wind but it has absolutely drilled some coyotes inside that limit.
Gregg
In a factory Sako, the light bullets are all that will work for me. That's been my only complaint with the rifle. In our wind,Oklahoma) it would be nice to be able to use heavier bullets. My rifle shoots best with 52 grain match bullets. 55 grain bullets start opening things up. Not huge but not the amazing accuracy of the slightly lighter ones. I never even went beyond 55 grain after noticing that.
And what a trigger on that rifle....
I consider it a 300 yards or closer rifle in our wind but it has absolutely drilled some coyotes inside that limit.
Gregg
Gregg,
I have the same Sako rifle only in 6PPC and they were and still are excellent out of the box factory rifle for accuracy. I've won many club matches with that gun. I'll say this, those Sako PPC's are the most accurate out of the box factory rifles ever made.
Dave T
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.