22 PPC advice

[steve123]

I just found out today that Norma makes 22PPC brass, neat, I think anyway.

I'm enjoying 223AI so much in my single shot I would like similar ballistics with the Hornady 88 grainers in a repeater using AICS mags with spacer kits, that I already have. A little mag lip bending/tuning might be in order.

Upsides in my mind so far are;

No fireforming.
A little more powder capacity over 223AI.
Plenty of room in the mag, with spacer kit, for long and heavy 22 cal bullets seated way out.
Norma brass.
Long barrel life and hopefully brass life too???
Great accuracy - PPC.

All I need is the appropriate bolt head and CRF extractor tuning.

Those of you that have done a 22PPC would you please tell me approximate velocity gain compared to 223 and can the Norma brass handle pressure well like Lapua does? Almost as strong as, etc.

 

[Cuando]

Steve123,

A .223AI or 22 br on a bolt gun.

.22 Grendel makes a lot of sense in an AR-15 however.

 

[steve123]

I was thinking of 22BR too but there's the necking down, etc.

Due to mag constraints with the 223 AICS mags I'm unsure about the velocity achievable with 88's, wanting 2850 fps or so out of a 25" barrel. Then there's the forming.

I have a 6mmFatRat upper, I like it. Got a couple hundred virgin brass as well but there's the forming with 22 Grendel.

Sure would be nice to load and shoot...

 

[GAnderson]

I use the Norma 22ppc brass for my 20PPC Improved...so far, it seems to be very good and tough brass. I have put some heavier loads thru it just to see if/when primer pockets might loosen up and it hasn't happened, so I think it is good brass and should be great for a 22PPC.
Also, a properly installed Mini16 extractor on a 308 size bolt will pull PPC brass as well as 308 size brass and is better than a Sako extractor.
I think you should go for it.

Gene

 

[steve123]

I use the Norma 22ppc brass for my 20PPC Improved...so far, it seems to be very good and tough brass. I have put some heavier loads thru it just to see if/when primer pockets might loosen up and it hasn't happened, so I think it is good brass and should be great for a 22PPC.
Also, a properly installed Mini16 extractor on a 308 size bolt will pull PPC brass as well as 308 size brass and is better than a Sako extractor.
I think you should go for it.

Gene

Thanks for that info, Gene. It definitely will help me in making a decision.

 

[LCazador]

I just found out today that Norma makes 22PPC brass, neat, I think anyway.

I'm enjoying 223AI so much in my single shot I would like similar ballistics with the Hornady 88 grainers in a repeater using AICS mags with spacer kits, that I already have. A little mag lip bending/tuning might be in order.

Upsides in my mind so far are;

No fireforming.
A little more powder capacity over 223AI.
Plenty of room in the mag, with spacer kit, for long and heavy 22 cal bullets seated way out.
Norma brass.
Long barrel life and hopefully brass life too???
Great accuracy - PPC.

All I need is the appropriate bolt head and CRF extractor tuning.

Those of you that have done a 22PPC would you please tell me approximate velocity gain compared to 223 and can the Norma brass handle pressure well like Lapua does? Almost as strong as, etc.

I did a 22PPC bolt gun with an 8 twist barrel but the heaviest bullet I shot was an 80gr. Frankly I thought the 69gr. Sierra bullets gave the best all around performance in my 22PPC. I think the case is a bit small for any bullet larger than that. I now shoot a 22BR with a 7 twist for 90gr bullets and even that case is a bit on the small side for 90 grain bullets. Norma makes excellent brass and it's capable of handling the higher pressures of a fast twist rifle. In my opinion I would say the 22PPC is still going to develop some nice velocities with the 80's but it's not going to be easy on barrels. Two setbacks to loading the 22PPC with heavies are: getting enough slow burning powder in the case to reach good velocities and most loads will be on the high end of pressure for the cartridge reducing brass life and barrel life. For an AR I'd do the 22 Nosler or the 224 Valkerie with 88 or 90g. bullets. Nosler makes great brass, at one time made by Norma, not sure if it's still made by Norma.

 

[Boyd L.]

Shooting an 88 grain bullet means a 7-8 twist so my experience with a 12 twist may be irrelevant. I’ll let you decide.
Using N-133 and Sierra 53 grain match (#1400) my load averaged 3497 FPS. Compare that to factory claims for the .223 55 grain load of 3240 for the Hornady V-Max.

Some of my Norma cases have been loaded and fired
7 or 8 times with no failures.

 

[steve123]

I did a 22PPC bolt gun with an 8 twist barrel but the heaviest bullet I shot was an 80gr. Frankly I thought the 69gr. Sierra bullets gave the best all around performance in my 22PPC. I think the case is a bit small for any bullet larger than that. I now shoot a 22BR with a 7 twist for 90gr bullets and even that case is a bit on the small side for 90 grain bullets. Norma makes excellent brass and it's capable of handling the higher pressures of a fast twist rifle. In my opinion I would say the 22PPC is still going to develop some nice velocities with the 80's but it's not going to be easy on barrels. Two setbacks to loading the 22PPC with heavies are: getting enough slow burning powder in the case to reach good velocities and most loads will be on the high end of pressure for the cartridge reducing brass life and barrel life. For an AR I'd do the 22 Nosler or the 224 Valkerie with 88 or 90g. bullets. Nosler makes great brass, at one time made by Norma, not sure if it's still made by Norma.

Isn't that your article in the bulletin, German?

That was all good info, except what velocity were you getting with the 80's?

I was shooting my 223AI just a few hours ago at 550Y, 675Y, 812Y, 981Y and 1122Y. The wind was down but those 88's at 2816 fps did surprisingly well!!! This was at a friends property here in northern AZ. Actually the first time I cleaned it on all the smaller steel and it was so nice with self spotting because of the low recoil. Just a fun afternoon.

Most of my main cartridges are wildcats, 6x47L, 6.5 Saum, 30-375R, etc. For a change I'd really like to go with a standard cartridge! Would you think that the 88 could go into the 2800's without pushing the case hard in a 6.5-7 twist?

If I go this way I want a no turn chamber so I better have a reamer made up for the 22PPC brass and send the print off to Whidden for custom dies. Having a long throat I think is key to lowering pressures some. I'm fine with the bottom of the baring surface of the bullet being a third up into those long necks.

I saw in some youtube videos that the 22 Nosler had weak brass and that it was inconsistent, also I don't like the rebated rim, and what magazines for a bolt action repeater would I use??? Seems like so far 224V isn't handling the higher pressures well either, maybe with Starline brass??!!

Seems like Varget or H4895 should work well with the 88-95's ??? I use H4895 in the 6mmFatRat with 95SMK. Getting 2870 fps at 2.245" with 29.4 grains with a warmer load. I'm just speculating on the 22PPC at this point with the 88's. Throated the way I want I'm thinking the case should take 26-27grains of powder???

 

[steve123]

Shooting an 88 grain bullet means a 7-8 twist so my experience with a 12 twist may be irrelevant. I’ll let you decide.
Using N-133 and Sierra 53 grain match (#1400) my load averaged 3497 FPS. Compare that to factory claims for the .223 55 grain load of 3240 for the Hornady V-Max.

Some of my Norma cases have been loaded and fired
7 or 8 times with no failures.

Shooting an 88 grain bullet means a 7-8 twist so my experience with a 12 twist may be irrelevant. I’ll let you decide.
Using N-133 and Sierra 53 grain match (#1400) my load averaged 3497 FPS. Compare that to factory claims for the .223 55 grain load of 3240 for the Hornady V-Max.

Some of my Norma cases have been loaded and fired
7 or 8 times with no failures.

Yes, that is quite an increase in velocity.

Thanks

 

[LCazador]

Isn't that your article in the bulletin, German?

That was all good info, except what velocity were you getting with the 80's?

I was shooting my 223AI just a few hours ago at 550Y, 675Y, 812Y, 981Y and 1122Y. The wind was down but those 88's at 2816 fps did surprisingly well!!! This was at a friends property here in northern AZ. Actually the first time I cleaned it on all the smaller steel and it was so nice with self spotting because of the low recoil. Just a fun afternoon.

Most of my main cartridges are wildcats, 6x47L, 6.5 Saum, 30-375R, etc. For a change I'd really like to go with a standard cartridge! Would you think that the 88 could go into the 2800's without pushing the case hard in a 6.5-7 twist?

If I go this way I want a no turn chamber so I better have a reamer made up for the 22PPC brass and send the print off to Whidden for custom dies. Having a long throat I think is key to lowering pressures some. I'm fine with the bottom of the baring surface of the bullet being a third up into those long necks.

I saw in some youtube videos that the 22 Nosler had weak brass and that it was inconsistent, also I don't like the rebated rim, and what magazines for a bolt action repeater would I use??? Seems like so far 224V isn't handling the higher pressures well either, maybe with Starline brass??!!

Seems like Varget or H4895 should work well with the 88-95's ??? I use H4895 in the 6mmFatRat with 95SMK. Getting 2870 fps at 2.245" with 29.4 grains with a warmer load. I'm just speculating on the 22PPC at this point with the 88's. Throated the way I want I'm thinking the case should take 26-27grains of powder???

Steve, that's not my article. The 22 Nosler driving a 77g bullet at 3300fps is a very efficient cartridge. No I don't think you can drive a 90g bullet at 2800 out of the PPC case. I can barely squeak that out of my BR case but I choose not to stand on my brass and I shoot more around 2700fps.

 

[steve123]

I did a 22PPC bolt gun with an 8 twist barrel but the heaviest bullet I shot was an 80gr. Frankly I thought the 69gr. Sierra bullets gave the best all around performance in my 22PPC. I think the case is a bit small for any bullet larger than that. I now shoot a 22BR with a 7 twist for 90gr bullets and even that case is a bit on the small side for 90 grain bullets. Norma makes excellent brass and it's capable of handling the higher pressures of a fast twist rifle. In my opinion I would say the 22PPC is still going to develop some nice velocities with the 80's but it's not going to be easy on barrels. Two setbacks to loading the 22PPC with heavies are: getting enough slow burning powder in the case to reach good velocities and most loads will be on the high end of pressure for the cartridge reducing brass life and barrel life. For an AR I'd do the 22 Nosler or the 224 Valkerie with 88 or 90g. bullets. Nosler makes great brass, at one time made by Norma, not sure if it's still made by Norma.

What was the length of your barrel in 22PPC and what velocity were you getting with the 80's?

 

[steve123]

What was the length of your barrel in 22PPC and what velocity were you getting with the 80's?

LC???

Anybody else have experience with 22 PPC?