22-6.5 PRC

[wboggs]

Anyone know of any work being done on a necked down 6.5 PRC case to .224?

 

[RegionRat]

With a case capacity of 6.5 PRC running at roughly 67.6 grains H2O, I'm curious about what would happen?

A 22-250 is roughly 44.6 gr H2O, 223 WSSM is 55.0 gr.

I'm guessing it would push 90s to their upper limits if you could make it work.

Way back when, P.O. Ackley and Bob Hutton did a 22 wildcat out of a 378 Weatherby Magnum.
They pushed a 50 grain bullet to 4600 fps which would be roughly 2350 ft*lbs. A 223 WSSM is only 1900 ft*lbs for reference.

 

[Ranger188]

Barrel burner, but fun in the short term.
Is it worth it?
Thought about doing something along those lines, but after a couple
22 Creeds, not sure I want to do it again. Gain isn't worth the trouble.

 

[wboggs]

With a case capacity of 6.5 PRC running at roughly 67.6 grains H2O, I'm curious about what would happen?

A 22-250 is roughly 44.6 gr H2O, 223 WSSM is 55.0 gr.

I'm guessing it would push 90s to their upper limits if you could make it work.

Way back when, P.O. Ackley and Bob Hutton did a 22 wildcat out of a 378 Weatherby Magnum.
They pushed a 50 grain bullet to 4600 fps which would be roughly 2350 ft*lbs. A 223 WSSM is only 1900 ft*lbs for reference.

I suspect it would blow up the 90 gr. with the twist requied to stabilize them unless you used a mono.
Wonder if Hammer has ever experimented? A 50 gr at 4300 or so would be interesting

 

[wboggs]

Barrel burner, but fun in the short term.
Is it worth it?
Thought about doing something along those lines, but after a couple
22 Creeds, not sure I want to do it again. Gain isn't worth the trouble.

Are you saying you don't like the .22 Creed?

 

[Jud96]

Look up the '22 Primal' from Primal Rights. Its essentially an Ackley Improved 22-6.5 PRC.

 

[B23]

Anyone know of any work being done on a necked down 6.5 PRC case to .224?

It would pretty much be a ballistic twin to the 22-284 since they have nearly identical case capacity and with the PRC parent case you'd have to use a magnum .540 bolt face action VS .470 standard bolt face action.

 

[STS]

It would pretty much be a ballistic twin to the 22-284 since they have nearly identical case capacity and with the PRC parent case you'd have to use a magnum .540 bolt face action VS .470 standard bolt face action.

^^^^^^ This, exactly. That ground was covered 40 years ago. The conclusion then was that those monster overbore cases "topped out" on velocity and didn't really offer any significant gain in performance. Bottom line is that you can only crowd so much powder through a small bore diameter barrel.

 

[wboggs]

^^^^^^ This, exactly. That ground was covered 40 years ago. The conclusion then was that those monster overbore cases "topped out" on velocity and didn't really offer any significant gain in performance. Bottom line is that you can only crowd so much powder through a small bore diameter barrel.

That is what I thought. I doubt it is worth persuing.
Just bored and looking for a fast .22 project.
Thanks

 

[RegionRat]

Look up the '22 Primal' from Primal Rights. Its essentially an Ackley Improved 22-6.5 PRC.

I'm drawing a blank on that one. Got any pointers or links to search?

All I am finding is one of Greg's YT Shorts from January where he shows a few minutes of video, but nothing else? He shows it right next to a 22 CM and it looks gigantic. It wasn't a joke unless he wasted a whole tray of PRC brass, but he doesn't talk about shooting results or recipes other than 75 ELDM.

 

[1lessdog]

I suspect it would blow up the 90 gr. with the twist requied to stabilize them unless you used a mono.
Wonder if Hammer has ever experimented? A 50 gr at 4300 or so would be interesting

I shoot the 50 gr Sierra Blitzking out of my 22-6MM AI at 4350 FPS with no sign of pressure.

 

[X Count]

Somewhere on here there is a big thread about the .220 "redline". From memory it was just a 7mm saum necked down to .224 so very similar to what your suggesting. Slightly more capacity but it's a short mag

 

[wboggs]

I'm going to morph this thread in a more realistic direction.
How about a .260 rem ackley necked to .224 for shooting light bullets? I'm burned out on the .260 and my 6.5 prc has pretty replaced it. I have a lot of brass, dies, powder and would be able to neck down, trim, neck turn with a minimum of expense for custom dies.
What do you guys think?

 

[Ranger188]

If I was to do another fast 22, it would be something in the area of
a 22 bra or 22 Dasher, even a 22 GT.
Less powder, more efficient and almost the same speed.

 

[natdscott]

I suspect it would blow up the 90 gr. with the twist requied to stabilize them unless you used a mono.
Wonder if Hammer has ever experimented? A 50 gr at 4300 or so would be interesting

You just turn down the twist, and maybe go with a modified pattern.

 

[357Mag]

I'm going to morph this thread in a more realistic direction.
How about a .260 rem ackley necked to .224 for shooting light bullets? I'm burned out on the .260 and my 6.5 prc has pretty replaced it. I have a lot of brass, dies, powder and would be able to neck down, trim, neck turn with a minimum of expense for custom dies.
What do you guys think?

Wboggs -

Howdy !

Your notional .22-.260RemAI would be another iteration of a .22-243AI, itself basically a
" .22-308AI ".

4D reamers shows a print for a .22-243 Middlestead..... based on .243 Win w/ a 30* shoulder angle. They show a print for a " .22-243Win AI " that features a 40* shoulder angle.

4D also shows a print for the " .220 Jaybird ", which is a tad shorter in case oal than the above, and has a 35* shoulder angle.

A small step up in wildcat case's major diameters would be the" .224 VAIS ", which is based on 6.5 X 55 Swedish. That one would require a .480" 'ish bolt face. 4D has a print on this one, too.

* 4D does list case capacities in grains H2O beneath the rim face of the case' drawings.
BUT.... does not tell you what brand of case was utilized for the capacity checks.

Another possible .224" cal wildcat design, would be one based on 9.3 X 62 brass.
This one would give major case diameters ( w/o having to blow out the case ) that would
be > .308 Win @ the base; and within .004" on shoulder diam.... compared to the standard .308-family shoulder diam. So... a shorter case oal could be utilized, while still maintaining .308 bolt face comparability; w/ just a slight rebate of the case' base above the rim. This would be a nod to the short / fat school of wildcat design.

I myself do gravitate towards use of a case capacity for my wildcats, that allows me to reach accuracy and terminal performance goals; w/o having barrel length becoming
unwieldy.

The use of .308 family brass might bring w/ it case availability questions ?
And.... dependent on final neck wall thickness desired for your wildcat.... you might have to start w/ .358Win brass; to ensure that the necks can be reamed and/or outside neck turned to ensure uniformity.... while still maintaining the desired neck wall thickness final result. Saw that happen on a wildcat I was working on for a shooter in New Zealand
He wanted a final .012" neck wall thickness for his desired 6.5mm calibre wildcat, and that was not do-able when case forming using .243Win .260Rem; or 7mm-08 cases.
Ordered in some .358Win brass, the multiple neck-downs to final calibre resulted in neck wall that were thick enough to allow neck turning to the .012" neck wall thickness desired.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[B23]

I'm going to morph this thread in a more realistic direction.
How about a .260 rem ackley necked to .224 for shooting light bullets? I'm burned out on the .260 and my 6.5 prc has pretty replaced it. I have a lot of brass, dies, powder and would be able to neck down, trim, neck turn with a minimum of expense for custom dies.
What do you guys think?

That's basically what my 224 Terminator is. It's what my gunsmith calls his version of a 22-243 Improved. Fully formed cases hold 56gr H2O. Defensive Edge Rifles has dies as well as formed Lapua brass ready to go.

224 Terminator

You have entered the home of data for the Terminator family of cartridges. Like all loading data, this is just a guideline to help you and not absolute information. This is simply what worked for us in just one or two rifles with our lot of powder, bullets primers, etc. It is still your...

defensiveedge.net

 

[358WCF]

I'm going to morph this thread in a more realistic direction.
How about a .260 rem ackley necked to .224 for shooting light bullets? I'm burned out on the .260 and my 6.5 prc has pretty replaced it. I have a lot of brass, dies, powder and would be able to neck down, trim, neck turn with a minimum of expense for custom dies.
What do you guys think?

Wasn't that about what Jim Carmichel's CHeetah was on the 1st iteration? The 2nd version had a shallower (30 or 35*) shoulder angle with the minimal case taper if I remember right. We have mo' better powders now than in the 80s too.

 

[wboggs]

Wboggs -

Howdy !

Your notional .22-.260RemAI would be another iteration of a .22-243AI, itself basically a
" .22-308AI ".

4D reamers shows a print for a .22-243 Middlestead..... based on .243 Win w/ a 30* shoulder angle. They show a print for a " .22-243Win AI " that features a 40* shoulder angle.

4D also shows a print for the " .220 Jaybird ", which is a tad shorter in case oal than the above, and has a 35* shoulder angle.

A small step up in wildcat case's major diameters would be the" .224 VAIS ", which is based on 6.5 X 55 Swedish. That one would require a .480" 'ish bolt face. 4D has a print on this one, too.

* 4D does list case capacities in grains H2O beneath the rim face of the case' drawings.
BUT.... does not tell you what brand of case was utilized for the capacity checks.

Another possible .224" cal wildcat design, would be one based on 9.3 X 62 brass.
This one would give major case diameters ( w/o having to blow out the case ) that would
be > .308 Win @ the base; and within .004" on shoulder diam.... compared to the standard .308-family shoulder diam. So... a shorter case oal could be utilized, while still maintaining .308 bolt face comparability; w/ just a slight rebate of the case' base above the rim. This would be a nod to the short / fat school of wildcat design.

I myself do gravitate towards use of a case capacity for my wildcats, that allows me to reach accuracy and terminal performance goals; w/o having barrel length becoming
unwieldy.

The use of .308 family brass might bring w/ it case availability questions ?
And.... dependent on final neck wall thickness desired for your wildcat.... you might have to start w/ .358Win brass; to ensure that the necks can be reamed and/or outside neck turned to ensure uniformity.... while still maintaining the desired neck wall thickness final result. Saw that happen on a wildcat I was working on for a shooter in New Zealand
He wanted a final .012" neck wall thickness for his desired 6.5mm calibre wildcat, and that was not do-able when case forming using .243Win .260Rem; or 7mm-08 cases.
Ordered in some .358Win brass, the multiple neck-downs to final calibre resulted in neck wall that were thick enough to allow neck turning to the .012" neck wall thickness desired.


With regards,
357Mag

Thanks for the detailed info, especially neck thickness

Wasn't that about what Jim Carmichel's CHeetah was on the 1st iteration? The 2nd version had a shallower (30 or 35*) shoulder angle with the minimal case taper if I remember right. We have mo' better powders now than in the 80s too.

Not much that hasn't been tried in the past. Better powders, brass, actions, and barrels now to be sure.

 

[perazziguy]

I'm going to morph this thread in a more realistic direction.
How about a .260 rem ackley necked to .224 for shooting light bullets? I'm burned out on the .260 and my 6.5 prc has pretty replaced it. I have a lot of brass, dies, powder and would be able to neck down, trim, neck turn with a minimum of expense for custom dies.
What do you guys think?

That would be similar to the 22 CHeetah. It used 308 srp cases.