Let me start with the basics. I am reloading once fired brass out of my Savage Model 11 .22-250. I am reloading it for the same gun that I shot it out of the first time. It is Hornady brass. My die is a Hornady Full Length sizer. The problem I am having is after running the brass through my full length sizer, it does not chamber correctly (bolt closes very hard). This is without even seating a new bullet in it. I have adjusted the die to touch the shell holder, then a 1/4 turn farther. After testing, I found that all of my brass chambers perfectly prior to the full length resizing. But once I have run it through the resizer, it will not re chamber. I have removed the decapping rod and tried it like that, only to find same results. I'm pulling my hair out on this one. Any help would be appreciated. I might mention I am relatively new to reloading but have had success with other calibers reloading.
.22-250 reloads Bolt closes very hard
- Thread starter NorMissouri9412
- Start date
Three possible causes: (1) After the FL sizing the brass has lengthened enough so the case is now too long to fit the chamber length. Try trimming the case by .005" to .010". Most factory chambers are overly long, some as much as .040" longer than trim-to-length measurements, but yours could be on the short side. If the case does fit after trimming, then write that dimension down & keep it for future trim-to-length's. (2) Even though you are 1/4 turn lower then touching the top of the shellholder you could still have a headspace length that is slightly more (and it only takes .002" or so) than the as-fired headspace. Like chamber length's, the thickness of shellholders also vary. You could have an extra thick one that is not letting you push the shoulders back enough to chamber. Many of us are using the Hornady Chamber Over-All-Length gauge to take accurate headspace measurements, comparing the as-fired length (after hand punching out the spent primer) to the as-sized length. If you find that you are unable to push the shoulders back at least .002" from as-fired length, then you might try removing some metal from the top of the shellholder. I'm fortunate in having a friend with a surface grinder and he can remove as much as I need in a few minutes, but not having that, it would be possible to polish it off with emery paper on a piece of steel. (3) The third most common cause of your problem would be the case head diameter just in front of the extractor groove. A difference of only .001" to .002" larger could also cause hard bolt closing. The reason small base dies are available. Not sure one is available for the 22-250, but you could try a 308 and I've also used a carbide sizer die for 45 ACP to reduce case head diameters.
Your problem is really strange with once-fired brass and all out of the same chamber. Can you try a different brand of brass, like Winchester, Federal or Remington? How about firing a box of factory ammo & try reloading those? I'd be most interested to hear what you discover.
Your problem is really strange with once-fired brass and all out of the same chamber. Can you try a different brand of brass, like Winchester, Federal or Remington? How about firing a box of factory ammo & try reloading those? I'd be most interested to hear what you discover.
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
You need to take your shell holder, turn it upside down and do figure 8 motions on 400 grit sans paper on top of a flat surface (countertop works). This will allow you to screw the die down a little more enough to allow brass to chamber properly.
The reason that it chambers without F/L sizing and not after is because when you F/L size, the die squeezes the sides of the case in, thus making it grow. So, it gets worse before it gets better. Your problems will go away after you remove material from your shell holder.
P.S. It is a good idea to buy a Hornady shoulder bump gauge.
The reason that it chambers without F/L sizing and not after is because when you F/L size, the die squeezes the sides of the case in, thus making it grow. So, it gets worse before it gets better. Your problems will go away after you remove material from your shell holder.
P.S. It is a good idea to buy a Hornady shoulder bump gauge.
NorMissouri9412 said:
Sounds like the brass is stretching in your die, a good starting point is to measure your fired brass before you run it through your die. To do this you will need a gauge and Hornady make one that many reloaders use for this very purpose. Here is a link. http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/
Say your fired brass measures 1.630 inches in the gauge (.308 for example, .22-250 will be different but the process of comparison is the same) you then run it through your die and find, as you say, that it's hard to chamber, you measure it again and you may find it's at say 1.634 or some higher figure. This tells you straight away that even though you have followed the die manufacturers instructions, you still need to screw the die in a little further until the sized brass is closer to 1.630 and it should then chamber without resistance.
Once you get this resolved, there's plenty of interesting reading on this forum about neck turning. You may be interested in this process especially if you continue to FLS without an expander ball in your die.
Martin
a belt sander wil make takeing material off the top of shell holder much quicker 3 or 4 thousandths should be plenty. when you resize brass the sides of the body are squeezed inward the metal has to go somewhere so it pushes the shoulder forward. definatly get a lock and load headspace guage they are the cats meow! the case length (too long) can cause a hard chambering with a bullet seated but with out a bullet it won't offer much resistance though it can be felt. good luck and safe shooting
Before you go modifying shell holders, trimming brass, etc. Get yourself some means of measuring your brass ie. hornady lock&load set or sinclair comparator holder with proper bump gauge! Measure your brass before and after sizing and like fdshuster said, you only need .002 of bump to get it right. After you get that right, start checking your trim length on your necks!
Mike
Mike
1st...Welcome to the site...great place to be if you have a problem that's for sure. The amount of hair you will pull out will be greatly reduced as the amount of knowledgeable folks here that take the time to respond is outstanding.
I agree with fdhuster as I have run into this problem with shellholders. If you only have one borrow one from a buddy, measure it to yours and see what you get. Also SB dies I don't think would be available in 22-250.
Actually ALL responses to your question are relevant. The fact that FIRED BRASS IN YOUR CHAMBER chambers BEFORE sizing shows the problem lies with the die, shell holder, and/or adjustment. CanusLatransSnr's answer in measuring is surely a good idea and the expense of the tool is spread out as it can be bought in a set which you can use in your other reloading for different cases. Your problem is a bit strange but lat me ask "Do you have a neck size die only" and if so what happens when you use that?
I agree with fdhuster as I have run into this problem with shellholders. If you only have one borrow one from a buddy, measure it to yours and see what you get. Also SB dies I don't think would be available in 22-250.
Actually ALL responses to your question are relevant. The fact that FIRED BRASS IN YOUR CHAMBER chambers BEFORE sizing shows the problem lies with the die, shell holder, and/or adjustment. CanusLatransSnr's answer in measuring is surely a good idea and the expense of the tool is spread out as it can be bought in a set which you can use in your other reloading for different cases. Your problem is a bit strange but lat me ask "Do you have a neck size die only" and if so what happens when you use that?
I agree that your sizing die, perhaps in spite of how carefully you use it on your fired brass, is the problem.
If your fired brass will chamber fine but F/L sized won't, can you try backing your die out enough so that you're not sizing anything but maybe half the length of your case necks? Just enough to allow proper seating of a bullet in the next go'round?
By this test I suggest you'll be able to tell if your fired brass is stretching upon first being fired (new brass is notorious for being 'short' in most factory chambers 'cause it has to be to fit so many possible chamber shapes from different manufacturers) then being resized to an OAL that interferes with your chamber's neck length without trimming first. By sizing just a portion of the neck you'll avoid squeezing the case body enough that a stretched case might not grow in length beyond what your chamber will accept.
This kind of situation is where something like Sinclair's chamber length gauge plugs come in handy. Used properly they allow you to measure the actual full case length your chamber will accept. Usual safe practice then is to keep your sized cases at least 0.015" under the maximum length you determine, maybe even more if you find your cases stretch a lot or you don't want to mess with trimming after every firing.
If you have a buddy you can borrow another brand of die from, try that too. Dies differ between brands & where one might work another won't. Same with shellholders.
Let us all know what you do next too until you find a workable solution.
If your fired brass will chamber fine but F/L sized won't, can you try backing your die out enough so that you're not sizing anything but maybe half the length of your case necks? Just enough to allow proper seating of a bullet in the next go'round?
By this test I suggest you'll be able to tell if your fired brass is stretching upon first being fired (new brass is notorious for being 'short' in most factory chambers 'cause it has to be to fit so many possible chamber shapes from different manufacturers) then being resized to an OAL that interferes with your chamber's neck length without trimming first. By sizing just a portion of the neck you'll avoid squeezing the case body enough that a stretched case might not grow in length beyond what your chamber will accept.
This kind of situation is where something like Sinclair's chamber length gauge plugs come in handy. Used properly they allow you to measure the actual full case length your chamber will accept. Usual safe practice then is to keep your sized cases at least 0.015" under the maximum length you determine, maybe even more if you find your cases stretch a lot or you don't want to mess with trimming after every firing.
If you have a buddy you can borrow another brand of die from, try that too. Dies differ between brands & where one might work another won't. Same with shellholders.
Let us all know what you do next too until you find a workable solution.
there may be another problem, if you set the fl die too close to the shell holder when the shell holder is short, you can take a once fired case that chambers well and push the shoulder backward causing a pressure ring at the shoulder body junction. you can often feel it, see it but surely measure it with calipers
look for this, if it is there, back off on your die, until the pressure ring goes away and the case is sized and will chamber.]]]
Bob
look for this, if it is there, back off on your die, until the pressure ring goes away and the case is sized and will chamber.]]]
Bob
My Savage .22-250 has the same problems. As mentioned earlier, I made the shell holder thinner by using a grinder. However, my with my Redding Type S die, I have to bump the shoulder too far before it will chamber like it should. By doing this, I am definitely overworking the brass and this has lead to a couple of case head failures on brass that has been shot approximatley 5 times.
As mentioned earlier, get case guage to measure shoulder bump so you can make sure you aren't having to bump your shoulders too far to make up for a die that doesn't fit your chamber correctly.
As mentioned earlier, get case guage to measure shoulder bump so you can make sure you aren't having to bump your shoulders too far to make up for a die that doesn't fit your chamber correctly.
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
Ben said:
Make that THREE Savage 22-250 having the same problem. Mine was the Savage Target Grey model that from the very beginning caused the same headaches. I consulted the GURU's (on this blog and elsewhere) and the basic diagnosis was a headspace issue and NOT the dies I was using (tried both Lees and Reddings and same issues) and finally got some relief by small adjustments using the Redding and comp shell holders. I also took the rifle down to my Gunsmith's who checked the headsapce with a go-no go guage and it checked out ok. But then after FINALLY being able to resize, no matter if I used Remington, Lapua or whomever's brass, I could only get about 4 reloads out of a casing before head separation reared it's ugly head. Back to the Gunsmith who again checked headspace and again it checked out ok. Ultimately after a year or so of disappointment with that rifle, took it to my Gunsmith and had him do a caliber change and abandoned that caliber.
Let me say that I have several Savage rifles and none have displayed the problems that 22-250 did. It's sorta like every manufacturer whether be it a rifle or a car, has a lemon. I believe the 22-250 for Savage is just that animal that for whatever reason, just never met the overall standard of excellence all other Savage rifles have. I wouldn't part with any of my Savages and BTW, my converted 6.5 X 55 shoots great and lights out with a Hart MG barrel on it.
Alex
Thanks everyone for the responses. I changed shell holders out to a thinner Lyman. And this fixed my problem. Thanks again everyone
Alex,
Maybe it isn't just Savages, I have an older Remington 700 Varminter in 22-250 that did the exact same thing, try to size cases and they got harder to chamber. I just had that gun re-barreled to 22-250 again and haven't had to full length size any cases yet so we'll see how it does when I do have to. Also NorMissouri9412 even if you think you got your problem fixed, do what everyone suggested and get the measuring tools to make sure.
Dave T
Maybe it isn't just Savages, I have an older Remington 700 Varminter in 22-250 that did the exact same thing, try to size cases and they got harder to chamber. I just had that gun re-barreled to 22-250 again and haven't had to full length size any cases yet so we'll see how it does when I do have to. Also NorMissouri9412 even if you think you got your problem fixed, do what everyone suggested and get the measuring tools to make sure.
Dave T
I do plan to order all the tools and gauges for the future. I borrowed my buddies Lyman F/L die and after using it with my original shell holder, it chambered fine. Just happened to be a case of having the wrong die with the wrong shell holder. I appreciate the quick responses.
Exactly what I meant when I said shellholders vary a lot in thickness, even by the same maker. Good to hear the problem is solved. 
The Stoney Point, now Hornaday chamber over-all-length gauge is one of my most valuable tools. I use it constantly every time I'm loading. Not only to verify headspace lengths but also exact bullet seating depth's.
The Stoney Point, now Hornaday chamber over-all-length gauge is one of my most valuable tools. I use it constantly every time I'm loading. Not only to verify headspace lengths but also exact bullet seating depth's.
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