22-250 AR questions

[half]

Hi everybody,
So I'm going to build a 22-250 on an AR platform. It's only function will be coyote calling at night. I'm looking for info from people that have been down that rabbit hole and made it out.

A little back story and info. Ive been hunting at night for several years with a supressed 223 AR, with NV and IR. Love my setup, just to many follow up shots and tracking dogs in the dark. I have tried several different bullets and loads, but I would still like to see better/cleaner kills. I rarely shoot over 200 yards at night, most shots are 75 to 150ish. Im not interested in mag dumps, most of the time its one or two shots. Where I live you can't use anything bigger than 22cal at night. I have dies and a pile of 22-250 brass, so losing a few isn't a big deal.

Ive done some research on other cases 224 Valkyrie, 22 Grendal, 22 Creedmoor. It seems like they all have some problems. For all out speed and preformance, nothing beats the 22-250.

Any information is appreciated.TIA

 

[B23]

I've been a 22-250 fan about as long as I can remember but a 22-250 in a bolt gun is a completely different animal then one in an AR build. It's your money so spend it how you like but I'd seriously consider a 22 ARC instead.

The pros of a 22 ARC AR is you'll be able to use the much smaller and lighter AR15 instead of a AR10 and in an AR setup the 22 ARC is nearly equaling the performance of a 22-250 but in a much smaller lighter package.

 

[jelenko]

I've been a 22-250 fan about as long as I can remember but a 22-250 in a bolt gun is a completely different animal then one in an AR build. It's your money so spend it how you like but I'd seriously consider a 22 ARC instead.

The pros of a 22 ARC AR is you'll be able to use the much smaller and lighter AR15 instead of a AR10 and in an AR setup the 22 ARC is nearly equaling the performance of a 22-250 but in a much smaller lighter package.

This ^^

 

[ZacharyR]

You could try a 223 WSSM that would keep you in the smaller AR15 platform and it would rival or exceed the 22-250.
I don’t have experience with the AR10 platform but I had 243WSSM in an AR15 that worked well.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I agree with arc so you can stick with the lighter smaller platform.

 

[troupe]

22 ARC, plus factory ammo is not that expensive with a better BC bullet from the factory.

 

[jelenko]

As others have mentioned, the AR10 is known to be significantly less comfortable to shoot than an AR15.
Along with there aren't universal standards/specs on parts and compatibility. For example, one manufacturer of large frame AR's use a firing pin spring.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Fitment issues between upper/lower receivers are more common in 10's than 15's. Magazine issues seem common with the 22-250, one of the reasons I run a 20p at night. Bullet selection is important, because night shooting accuracy is more difficult than day scope shooting. The 20p with 40 gr Bergers/Bibs is pretty reliable killer.

 

[5soutdoorsTX]

I have worked with Scott Milkovich, formerly with Specialized Dynamics, on a number of discussions, and 22-250 was one that we discussed ad nauseum, and the fruit of that was making modified magazine followers to reduce the issues with feeding in that platform (AR Gas).

There will always be naysayers with respect to the large frame system, and that boils down to whether you want to use the system that was originally designed by Eugene Stoner (Armalite AR10) and the SR25 platform, or modified by Luthar for DPMS which is the LR308. Since then, some companies have taken creative liberty to make their system a hybrid Armalite with DPMS fitment. The lower receiver, with the exception of the take down and pivot pins, and the bolt catch, will use all the same parts as any AR15. So that argument is tired and put to bed. The issue comes from buying uppers that don't match your lower or a handguard that won't match your upper. The only other small issue is if you are informed that the upper uses the Armalite thread pattern, then you will have to be sure you get a barrel that has an extension and headspaced using Armalite measurements. Small issue honestly. Most barrel companies focus on the DPMS pattern of bolt/carrier and tenon length, utilizing the thread pitch of the DPMS as well for attachment and use of the barrel nut.

All that said, if you're dead set on using an AR pattern rifle to shoot 22-250 and want to build it yourself, focus on the parts that will make function the most efficient:
- Gas block and tube with proper chamfering of the interior portion of the tube.
- Buffer and Spring using the correct buffer tube. AR10 designed the system that we see most often referred to as Vltor A5... slightly longer extension tube (8" in length), using a heavier weight buffer and spring tension. This is accomplished today using a Carbine spring and a heavy buffer. Or you can opt for the updated systems like the JP silent capture or hydraulic buffers instead. If you choose to go to the DPMS pattern of recoil and buffer system, purchase the new KAK Industry KSpec buffer and spring combinations which use the standard milspec length buffer extension. Huge difference in cycling.
- Magazine modifications. Scott with Specialized Dynamics previously made posts on youtube and facebook regarding these modifications, and the guys at SD also sell these modified magazines for that purpose.

If you desire NOT to build it yourself, then I'd recommend buying the whole rifle. You can purchase from SD when they get back up and running in SD, or you can reach out to Spade Composites and chat with Scott directly about what you're intending to build and how. Wealth of knowledge.

I do not work with him as an employee or anything and I make nothing from mentioning it, but I do know that he's built a successful business which he recently sold by selling these rifles to guys in the field.


As far as what I tend to opt for: I'm a small frame guy, and therefore, I am a HUGE fan of the 22ARC and 224 Valk. I shoot largely grendel and 6.8SPC so wildcatting off those cases before they came along was right up my alley. The ARC is fantastic cross over from the 223, and I thoroughly enjoyed shooting the Valkyrie as well. If I were to dedicate a night hunting rifle, either one of those would be my go to as they offer much more value add over the 223 that I previously hunted with.

 

[half]

Thanks 5soutdoorsTX, I really appreciate the information. My favorite day gun is a large frame chambered in 243, so I am aware of the size difference. Ive looked at 22ARC, 224 VAlk, etc. The performance is better than a 223, but not on the same level as a 250. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[5soutdoorsTX]

Thanks 5soutdoorsTX, I really appreciate the information. My favorite day gun is a large frame chambered in 243, so I am aware of the size difference. Ive looked at 22ARC, 224 VAlk, etc. The performance is better than a 223, but not on the same level as a 250. Thanks everyone for the input.

Good deal. If anything down the road, it might help someone else.

Keep us in mind with your progress if you do end up going 250 mode!

 

[JSH]

I personally have not been down that rabbit hole. Buddy that won his is a night time caller. You will have to tune the load to the gun and stick with it. Changing ammo will change other things and cause grief.
He spent a fair bit of time tuning, only to find he had to do more work for temp differences. All in all,it was a learning, frustrating experience. I have not talked to him since early this spring. I don’t know what his plans are come this fall and winter. He did ask about my 220 swift in a #1. I don’t know how it does as it sees little use in cold weather.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Thanks 5soutdoorsTX, I really appreciate the information. My favorite day gun is a large frame chambered in 243, so I am aware of the size difference. Ive looked at 22ARC, 224 VAlk, etc. The performance is better than a 223, but not on the same level as a 250. Thanks everyone for the input.

Good that you have a feel for the big AR. I shot the AR -15 platform for years in Service Rifle and wanted to try an M110 for long range and it felt like I was dancing with a different woman. A tall and fat woman at that !

 

[wkndwarrior]

There's a vendor at some of the larger gun shows around here that always has some 22-250 AR's, they look nice and he uses premium components. No idea if they shoot as nice as they look but he said that he guarantee's 1/2 MOA. He also sells the parts. Not affiliated at all, I just collected his card in case I want to check one out in the future. Here's the info if you care to reach out for more information from him: https://samuraifirearms.com/

 

[half]

thanks warrior ill check the link.

 

[xswanted]

What bullets are you using that you’re not getting DRT coyotes with a 223 under 200 yards?

Sounds like a bullet problem more than anything.

 

[ZenArchery]

I had one and got rid of it. My evaluation was the bottle neck cases did not feed a) stack well in a modern AR Magazine b). did not feed well into a modern AR chamber. When I single hand fed accuracy was great but defeated the purpose of having it in an AR system. I've sense run the 22CM AI and have had no issue with feed, load, cycle, etc...

With my original 22-250 it may be a chicken or egg with the magazine, feeding, cycling issue but I got tired of wasting components trying to get it to function properly.

 

[half]

What bullets are you using that you’re not getting DRT coyotes with a 223 under 200 yards?

Sounds like a bullet problem more than anything.

The list of bullets I haven't tried is shorter. 60gr vmax out of a 9 twist currently.

Thanks Zen, thats the information Im looking for.

 

[Lefty2506]

Ive done some research on other cases 224 Valkyrie, 22 Grendal, 22 Creedmoor. It seems like they all have some problems. For all out speed and preformance, nothing beats the 22-250.

Any information is appreciated.TIA

I'm not sure how you can say that the 22-250 beats a 22CM in any way, shape, or form. Everything I've seen indicates that the 22CM is essentially a ballistic twin to the 22-250 AI and 22 XC. I agree with others that the 22ARC is the best option for an AR15 frame, but I also totally agree with you that the 22ARC is NOT on the same level as a 22-250. If you're looking for a 22cal to shoot from an AR10, I'd lean towards the 22CM because there are already so many 6.5 CMs out there that run well. Seems like stepping one down to a 22 cal and getting it to run would be a LOT easier than dealing with a totally different case like the 22-250, especially when you're looking for mags.

My other thought is that if you're not satisfied with the .223s performance on coyotes under 200 yds, I'd suggest either changing your shot placement to take out both front shoulders, or moving to a larger caliber. Whether you go with a 22ARC, 22-250, or 22CM, I don't think you'll see a significant change in the terminal results.

All of that said, it's your money so just make sure you have fun with it

 

[boltfluter]

The heavily tapered case in the .22-250 will be a nightmare from a magazine feeding proposition. The .22 Arc is the simple and obvious solution. Think hard on this before moving forward. Good luck if you do.
Paul