22-250 Ackley Improved Questions

[Mike in Oregon]

I'm planning to re-barrel a Winchester M70 to the above for a heavy varmint bench gun as a primary rock chuck / PD rifle. My plans are to use a 50 to 55-grain bullet (NBT, Vmax, Blitz) and a standard 14T. From there, I need guidance to what might work the best. Here are some of the questions I have:

-Barrel Length?

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits)

-Neck Dia.?

-Free Bore?

-Dies & Bushings Recommended?

-Powders?

-Fire Forming Input?

 

[slm9s]

Is there a reason you wouldn't choose a 22 Creed?

 

[pdhntr]

I'm planning to re-barrel a Winchester M70 to the above for a heavy varmint bench gun as a primary rock chuck / PD rifle. My plans are to use a 50 to 55-grain bullet (NBT, Vmax, Blitz) and a standard 14T. From there, I need guidance to what might work the best. Here are some of the questions I have:

-Barrel Length?

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits)

-Neck Dia.?

-Free Bore?

-Dies & Bushings Recommended?

-Powders?

-Fire Forming Input?

Please understand that I am not trying to derail your thread. If you are set on the 14 twist go for it. However, it won't stabilize the 53 gr. Hornady V-max, and that would be one of the bullets that should do very well for your application.

Several years ago I rebarreled both my 22-250 pd guns to 12 twist just so I could shoot the 53 V-max and the 60 gr. Sierra TMK.

I couldn't be happier with the results.

Jim

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Is there a reason you wouldn't choose a 22 Creed?

And the first post is already as expected! I already have one sir.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Please understand that I am not trying to derail your thread. If you are set on the 14 twist go for it. However, it won't stabilize the 53 gr. Hornady V-max, and that would be one of the bullets that should do very well for your application.

Several years ago I rebarreled both my 22-250 pd guns to 12 twist just so I could shoot the 53 V-max and the 60 gr. Sierra TMK.

I couldn't be happier with the results.

Jim

I have no problem with the 12T. It's going to come down to what bullet I choose is all.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I have no problem with the 12T. It's going to come down to what bullet I choose is all.

IF, you want to shoot,.. 55 NBT's, 53 V-Max or, 55 gr. Sierra Blitz King's, you will Need, a 12 Twist, IMO,..
SKIP, the 14 Twist ! 55 NBT's shot OK, in Summer months, the, Load went to "Krap" in January,.. Here !
I'm going with, a .22 Creed, 1-9 twist for my Next Barrel, to shoot the Longer, 53 V-Max /55 Blitz up to, the 69 TMK's and the 73 gr. Berger, Target BT's. ( Dual purpose Rifle for, Sage Rats in Spring then Yotes, Later in year )
NO fire-forming, for Me and I want, a cart. Case that, WILL Be avail for,.. Years.
I only Wish that, the .22 XC was, More Popular, as I Like It, WAY Better than, the .22 Creed ! ( Re-Sale of, Rifle )

 

[357Mag]

I'm planning to re-barrel a Winchester M70 to the above for a heavy varmint bench gun as a primary rock chuck / PD rifle. My plans are to use a 50 to 55-grain bullet (NBT, Vmax, Blitz) and a standard 14T. From there, I need guidance to what might work the best. Here are some of the questions I have:

-Barrel Length?

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits)

-Neck Dia.?

-Free Bore?

-Dies & Bushings Recommended?

-Powders?

-Fire Forming Input?

Mike -

Howdy !

For a barrel length, I suggest 26”, since it sounds like your shooting will be from a bench; or using some device….from a “ fixed “ position.

I DK your powder choice(s) for this application; but recommend powders in the “ burn rate” zone of H4850 - 6.5 StaBal.

Also…. FED Large Magnum Rifle Match ( GM215M ) if you can get them.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

If, you want to "See the Hits" on Rock Chucks, Sage Rats, PD's,.. etc.,..
you'll want, TIPPED,.. 50, 53 or, 55 grain, Bullets at, 3,500 to 3,600 Max approx., fps ( Rifle weight, Dependent ).
H-4895, IMR 4895, Varget, N-140 for, Powders.
Short Freebore, 0 to, .080 Max
.256 / .257 Dia., NO turn, Neck
Forster Dies with, Peterson, Norma or, Lapua Brass.
I'd sell, the M-70 and go with, a Short action, Rem 700 ( Faster Lock Time = MORE, Accuracy ).
H-S precision Fiber glass stock ( Bedded Action ) Add, a "Toe Runner" to fit your leather, Protector rear Bag ).
And a "Good", 4 Port, with, Top Holes, Brake !
My 8 pound, .22-250 Rem., is set Up to,.. "See, the Splodies" !

 

[Mike in Oregon]

IF, you want to shoot,.. 55 NBT's, 53 V-Max or, 55 gr. Sierra Blitz King's, you will Need, a 12 Twist, IMO,..
SKIP, the 14 Twist ! 55 NBT's shot OK, in Summer months, the, Load went to "Krap" in January,.. Here !
I'm going with, a .22 Creed, 1-9 twist for my Next Barrel, to shoot the Longer, 53 V-Max /55 Blitz up to, the 69 TMK's and the 73 gr. Berger, Target BT's. ( Dual purpose Rifle for, Sage Rats in Spring then Yotes, Later in year )
NO fire-forming, for Me and I want, a cart. Case that, WILL Be avail for,.. Years.
I only Wish that, the .22 XC was, More Popular, as I Like It, WAY Better than, the .22 Creed ! ( Re-Sale of, Rifle )

I too have a 22CM in 9T. It's a custom Ruger No. 1. I setup for the 62-grain ELD-VT. I hear you in the fire forming!

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

The .22 BR and .22 XC are also, very NICE, accurate, Varmint Cartridges If , wanting, best / Target, Accuracy.
Long Necks, for adjusting Bullet movement to, "Chase, the Lands",. ARE,. Sweet !
Bonus, a Bit Better,.. Barrel "Life"
I'm choosing the .22 Creed for Re-Sale Value, In case, I go,.. "South" ( to the Big Elk wallow, in the Sky )

 

[Webster]

I'm planning to re-barrel a Winchester M70 to the above for a heavy varmint bench gun as a primary rock chuck / PD rifle. My plans are to use a 50 to 55-grain bullet (NBT, Vmax, Blitz) and a standard 14T. From there, I need guidance to what might work the best. Here are some of the questions I have:

-Barrel Length?

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits)

-Neck Dia.?

-Free Bore?

-Dies & Bushings Recommended?

-Powders?

-Fire Forming Input?

If your going to shoot 200-300 shots a day how long do you think the barrel will last. I have a 6BR with over 4000 shots on the barrel , it still shoots under .400". Also own a 6BRX. Simple to FF.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

The .22 BR and .22 XC are also, very NICE, accurate, Varmint Cartridges If , wanting, best / Target, Accuracy.
Long Necks, for adjusting Bullet movement to, "Chase, the Lands",. ARE,. Sweet !

Boy did I open a can of worms!

 

[358WCF]

Below are some thoughts after experience with my rifle. The barrel gave up the ghost after unknown # of rounds. It came to me very used & I ran about 1500 through it over the past 35 years. It's getting a new 12 twist 22BR barrel as I type this. Hoping there's another 22-250 Ackley in my future, just somewhere down the road. It may be 12 twist depending on how the BR performs.

-Barrel Length? I would go 26" minimum. Much longer may end up nose heavy & shorter will affect velocity adversely.

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits) ???

-Neck Dia.? No turn, whatever that will be on my chosen brass plus 2 to 3 thou per side.

-Free Bore? Very little beyond what's needed for your chosen bullet. Mine shot best most cup & core bullets at around .005" from touch. Unsure where the 53 V-Max will shoot. My 14 twist didn't like them at all.

-Dies & Bushings Recommended? Whatever FL matches your chamber best. I was using plain old FL Redding dies -no bushing- backed off a bit for headspace control.

-Powders? The best behaved with highest velocity & tiny groups was a very compressed charge of a rather quick lot of H4350 or a very similar '80s lot of IMR4350. If you find some, Scot 4351 also worked very well. The ball powders I tried all got peaky & pernicious at higher charges... mild to wild in less than 1/2 gr. RL17 didn't shoot very well for me, RL16 was too bulky for top speeds, RL23 might work.

-Fire Forming Input? All of my Ackleys form best when using warm to book max loads for the parent cartridge with a bullet. Hopefully whoever reams your chamber specs it for a crush fit on your chosen brass. If not, a 2ndary shoulder will give best results & longer case life.

On a sloppy chamber I've tried COW (fired level & pointed straight up), just bullet jam, no prep at all (factory loads) & was unsatisfied with the results which ranged from rounded barely expanded shoulders to that shiny incipient separation line on the 1st firing & partial separation on the 2nd.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

If your going to shoot 200-300 shots a day how long do you think the barrel will last. I have a 6BR with over 4000 shots on the barrel , it still shoots under .400". Also own a 6BRX. Simple to FF.

Same with the 22CM! I'm open to other 22 cartridges. I just want something that I can handload for being somewhat of a newbie at this.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Boy did I open a can of worms!

YUP,. Lots of, Choices !

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Below are some thoughts after experience with my rifle. The barrel gave up the ghost after unknown # of rounds. It came to me very used & I ran about 1500 through it over the past 35 years. It's getting a new 12 twist 22BR barrel as I type this. Hoping there's another 22-250 Ackley in my future, just somewhere down the road. It may be 12 twist depending on how the BR performs.

-Barrel Length? I would go 26" minimum. Much longer may end up nose heavy & shorter will affect velocity adversely.

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits) ???

-Neck Dia.? No turn, whatever that will be on my chosen brass plus 2 to 3 thou per side.

-Free Bore? Very little beyond what's needed for your chosen bullet. Mine shot best most cup & core bullets at around .005" from touch. Unsure where the 53 V-Max will shoot. My 14 twist didn't like them at all.

-Dies & Bushings Recommended? Whatever FL matches your chamber best. I was using plain old FL Redding dies -no bushing- backed off a bit for headspace control.

-Powders? The best behaved with highest velocity & tiny groups was a very compressed charge of a rather quick lot of H4350 or a very similar '80s lot of IMR4350. If you find some, Scot 4351 also worked very well. The ball powders I tried all got peaky & pernicious at higher charges... mild to wild in less than 1/2 gr. RL17 didn't shoot very well for me, RL16 was too bulky for top speeds, RL23 might work.

-Fire Forming Input? All of my Ackleys form best when using warm to book max loads for the parent cartridge with a bullet. Hopefully whoever reams your chamber specs it for a crush fit on your chosen brass. If not, a 2ndary shoulder will give best results & longer case life.

On a sloppy chamber I've tried COW (fired level & pointed straight up), just bullet jam, no prep at all (factory loads) & was unsatisfied with the results which ranged from rounded barely expanded shoulders to that shiny incipient separation line on the 1st firing & partial separation on the 2nd.

Nice reply! Especially the format! Noted!!!

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Boy did I open a can of worms!

You've got to Look over, All the "Spec's" and Needs that, YOU Desire and Rule Out, what DOESN'T "Work",..
for, you !
It's, a Process of Elimination, as there are very Few,.. "Perfect",.. Options ( But, you CAN, come close )
There's a LOT of, Knowledge, on this "Site"
Look everything Over, to see what Check's,.. YOUR, Boxes ( Make, a List ! ).
Then ask, very Specific, Questions.

 

[Ackman]

I'm planning to re-barrel a Winchester M70 to the above for a heavy varmint bench gun as a primary rock chuck / PD rifle. My plans are to use a 50 to 55-grain bullet (NBT, Vmax, Blitz) and a standard 14T. From there, I need guidance to what might work the best. Here are some of the questions I have:

-Barrel Length?

-Brake / Mercury Tube / Added Weight? (I want to see my hits)

-Neck Dia.?

-Free Bore?

-Dies & Bushings Recommended?

-Powders?

-Fire Forming Input?

I've had a few. The heavy one - actually kind of like Rem varmint weight - is 25" long, a good length for in and out of the truck. I mostly shoot off the hood now. Braked - a big honkin' thing and see the hits just fine, the gun barely moves. Done with 0 freebore reamer, unturned brass. Loaded round is .250. Redding comp dies. Win. 760 powder works, but in mine Reloder 15 is best. Barrel is a Lothar Walther, roughly Rem. varmint weight, and 14twist if memory serves. Shoots just fine, a friend shoots them at 4150 through his, but I use 50 bal tips and this barrel shoots them "very" well.....fireforming was at 4113, velocity with formed brass field accuracy load is 4225. Brass is PMC, very strong stuff, from when you could actually go into a store and buy it. Days long past. Lapua is slightly too big for this chamber. The sporter is a 14 twist Lilja, same chamber, and very nicely accurate with again......50 gr. bullets. With this heavier rifle I've shot very many varmints with 50's and they were very effective. This barrel is plenty heavy enough to work well..

 

[thatguyshm]

I don't like cream of wheat near my guns, so I don't fire form that way. I tried two other ways to get what I needed. I tried hydro forming with a custom 22-250AI former. Worked okay, but really didn't like having to keep a press just for this die. Can't use a smaller frame C style press, it needs to be a good O arm press due to how hard you have to smack that plunger, switched to a Forster years back, so had to use a secondary, it's a pain, all to get to about 90-95% formed. Which means you have different capacity rounds all loaded up.

Mine is an 8 twist, so I just loaded up 68gr Hornady with a stout load of RL15 and got perfect brass every time and a load that shoots under an inch.

Everything else comes down to personal preference. You seem to have something in mind, can you fill out the same questions you're looking for answers to? Any of them? Have you settled on a bullet? Or is the only factor you're looking for is "splody" shots?

You wanting to see them can be done any number of ways. Is this a repeater? A single shot? What action will be used to build this? A range toy simply to play with one of the best AI rounds out there? You can help spot impacts by weight or brake. I've done both. Same goes for barrel, what is the end plan? If it's velocity and spotting hits, go long, go thick and call it a day.

I turn sig brass, get great results, but Lapua wasn't available when I started my forming. Use a reamer that is for a Lapua no turn, no issues there.

It all ends up to once again, what you want from it. I'm very happy with my 8 twist, definitely prefer it over a 22 Creed.

 

[Steel Mover]

I have been thinking that my 1-7 twist on my Rem 700 trued action would be better as an 8 twist good to hear that you do get good results from the 1-8. I had Carrol P at Sierra send me two boxes of 75 SMKs they were working on, they have worked well in my 1-7 twist SS LW 26"factory fluted BBL. I trued and squared the action up, cut it .010 over size and had Bob Coogan hard chrome it for me, then I put a Kipplinger single set 4/3 trigger in it. It sets in a full glass bedded HS P stock and shoots walking crows in corn fields out to 500 so far at 100%. I just fire form with the full loads and used a standard no turn neck reamer with a scrape on closing headspace. The Rem brass is 100% prepped and segregated by the exact same water capacity. Scope is an 8x32x56 Japanese mil dot. The picture does not show the actual scope click settings printed table on the front bell to 800 as our longest field distance here.
If I need to change the barrel, I will order an 8 twist from LW. And by the way, Jard is making the 700 single set triggers.