21st century hydro seater vs K&M arbor press with indicator

[Judd]

Wilson, is there others?

 

[zipollini]

I use a 21st Century hydro press for use with my 6XC stuff. A few things that I have found that really helps seating pressure consistency is making sure the neck IDs are always prepared the same. After FL sizing with a Redding type S FL sizing die I run a Sinclair expander thru the neck and then trim and rechamfer the neck every time with my Giraud trimmer. I then spin a bronze brush that has 0000 steel wool wrapped around it in the neck ID which creates almost a mirror finish on the neck ID. I do not use neck lube to seat the bullets and my bullets are HBn coated. I've tried different neck lubes and have found no difference than by not using any.

One other thing that I have also found to get me a lower SD is to weigh sort primers. Between that and case weight sorting really makes a huge difference. My SD is ALWAYS in mid single digits. Needless to say I am using an analytical balance - Sartorius Entris

 

[jsthntn247]

I can't comment on the 21st, but his stuff in other tooling has been top notch. Now I won't try to talk you out of buying one of these tools, as I still use my km and record the data. BUT, I will say this, what you'll be measuring has somewhere around 75% of it influenced by surface finish of the interior of the neck. In other words, if you change nothing else but the brand or diameter of the nylon brush used to burnish the inside, your seating force will change. Not necessarily will this example even effect the tune, just a heads up.


Tom

I've noticed this also. I call it friction tension. It can drive you nuts if you do anything different in your prep.

 

[Culater]

I use a 21st Century hydro press for use with my 6XC stuff. A few things that I have found that really helps seating pressure consistency is making sure the neck IDs are always prepared the same. After FL sizing with a Redding type S FL sizing die I run a Sinclair expander thru the neck and then trim and rechamfer the neck every time with my Giraud trimmer. I then spin a bronze brush that has 0000 steel wool wrapped around it in the neck ID which creates almost a mirror finish on the neck ID. I do not use neck lube to seat the bullets and my bullets are HBn coated. I've tried different neck lubes and have found no difference than by not using any.

One other thing that I have also found to get me a lower SD is to weigh sort primers. Between that and case weight sorting really makes a huge difference. My SD is ALWAYS in mid single digits. Needless to say I am using an analytical balance - Sartorius Entris

I will try the steel wool method for my necks. I ultrasonic clean my brass and then use a food dehydrator to dry my brass. I dont brush my necks at all

 

[fguffey]

Tom
Click to expand...

I've noticed this also. I call it friction tension.

If I had a gage that measured tensions, again I have gages that measure deviation and pounds, not so much in tensions. And now we have tension in frictions in what? Skid resistance?

I made a seater, I can not call if a seater die because there is no die body, just a seater, in my opinion it is the smoothers seater I have ever used. It is one precision tool and it has neck and shoulder support. And then? Beyond that the seater can be improved upon.

F. Guffey

 

[lawrence97]

You can see the difference on paper between 25 & 33 pounds of seating force? What is the acceptable tolerance in seating force?
CW

At what distance are you able to see a difference between 25 and 33 psi! And how many rounds were fired to arrive at that conclusion? Or what were the conditions like if fired at long range?

 

[pat fulghum]

i have 50 cases carefully prepped. Have reloaded them 3 times. out of that 50 i will get 30 with the seating pressure i am looking for. i have tried three different sizing dies so far. my harrell selected from 3 fired cases is the most promising so far. trying K&M expander mandrel kit to see if it will produce more uniform neck tension now. Been in Colorado on vacation for a few months. Should be back in the shooting groove soon.

here are the steps i take loading rounds for my 6BR

weigh sort lapua brass
weigh sort and sort by bearing length berger bullets
neck turn brass
anneal brass every firing
leave carbon in the necks
charge with adam's autotrickler system
use a variety of sizing dies and expanders seeking that elusive neck tension
seat bullets with wilson die and 21st century shooting hydro press and sort by seating force
check concentricity on fired brass, sized brass and final loaded rounds and sort final rounds by runnout. perfect and less than .003

looking forward to the day when all 50 will have consistent seating force. i have learned a lot.

Almost exactly what i do with one addition....

Every unexplained shot gets crushed by the heel of My right boot and subsequently culled.

 

[Mulligan]

At what distance are you able to see a difference between 25 and 33 psi! And how many rounds were fired to arrive at that conclusion? Or what were the conditions like if fired at long range?

I think you quoted the wrong message, I too was asking the question.
CW

 

[fguffey]

I have no interest in digging back through magazines from the 60s but there was a shooter/reloader author that published an article about 500 cases he purchased that were advertised as being from one lot. separated, sorted and culled and then loaded and shot and sorted and separated again until he got down to the most accurate of the cases, he settled on 47 cases. He then started over by loading shooting , sorting separating and culling and then he indexed the cases, he indexed his chamber and started over. I was impressed, he achieved the same accuracy with the worst of culled cases when he indexed the case in the chamber.

I sort cases and I match head stamps. I have loaded 120 30/06 rounds with 12 different head stamps, powders and bullets, out of the 120 I did not have a flyer and none of the groups opened up, that was twice because I loaded another 120 rounds in 12 groups of 10 and asked the new owner to determine what the rifle liked. No flyers and it took one round from each group of 10 to center the scope. So If I am doing the reloading it does not matter as long as the shooter zeroes the scope.

The rifle was too heavy for the owner, he now uses a 7MM57, I offered to go to 7MM57 Ackely, he started with the 300 Win Mag, and now the 300 Win Mag goes not get to go.

F. Guffey

 

[LHSmith]

I have no interest in digging back through magazines from the 60s but there was a shooter/reloader author that published an article about 500 cases he purchased that were advertised as being from one lot. separated, sorted and culled and then loaded and shot and sorted and separated again until he got down to the most accurate of the cases, he settled on 47 cases. He then started over by loading shooting , sorting separating and culling and then he indexed the cases, he indexed his chamber and started over. I was impressed, he achieved the same accuracy with the worst of culled cases when he indexed the case in the chamber.

I sort cases and I match head stamps. I have loaded 120 30/06 rounds with 12 different head stamps, powders and bullets, out of the 120 I did not have a flyer and none of the groups opened up, that was twice because I loaded another 120 rounds in 12 groups of 10 and asked the new owner to determine what the rifle liked. No flyers and it took one round from each group of 10 to center the scope. So If I am doing the reloading it does not matter as long as the shooter zeroes the scope.

The rifle was too heavy for the owner, he now uses a 7MM57, I offered to go to 7MM57 Ackely, he started with the 300 Win Mag, and now the 300 Win Mag goes not get to go.

F. Guffey

If the shots don't go in the same damn hole as the first.......then I call 'em fliers........different expectations of accuracy.....Wwaaayyyy different....night and day different.

 

[Richard Coody]

yep. this or better is what all this is about for me

 

[Culater]

yep. this or better is what all this is about for me

Nice

 

[Hermantk]

21st century hydro press is the best.

Lower neck tension to .001 - .0015
It should give you about 20 psi on press.

Any that have higher psi, mark primers with sharpie. After you fire them and need to load them again, use 400 grit sand paper on outside of necks to remove some material from neck. Don’t over do it. Do this every time you load your brass and it will get more consistent in seating PSI.

stupid question perhaps...how does removing material from the outside of the neck affect seating PSI? thanx

 

[21shooter]

stupid question perhaps...how does removing material from the outside of the neck affect seating PSI? thanx

The thinner the neck wall the less the psi will be....(Depending on brass hardness)
John

 

[Petros284]

Wilson, is there others?

21st Century. Calibrated to your specific load. http://www.xxicsi.com/calibrated-bullet-seater.html

 

[Judd]

21st Century. Calibrated to your specific load. http://www.xxicsi.com/calibrated-bullet-seater.html

That was from 2 years ago

 

[Hermantk]

Thank you much. Who'd a thunk it?

 

[TrekUS]

21st Century. Calibrated to your specific load. http://www.xxicsi.com/calibrated-bullet-seater.html

Researching arbor press/in-line dies... Petra’s, Wilson appears to be a “standard”... But if I am not set on my bullet choice for the $$$ 21st-century approach has anybody use the Sinclair-Wilson micro adjustable in-line seating die?