21st century hydro seater vs K&M arbor press with indicator

[Culater]

Looking into these two units and want some feed back from thoses who have them

My Goal is to try to separate my brass that is seat to light and to heavy and have a main core of brass in the middle. Trying to get more consistent reloads and tighten up my water line a little more. I think this could help. Ever since I broke down and started getting better tools like a high end e-scale and the AMP annealer and redding dies with bushings all my group sizes have been cut in half and my SD are in the single digits. But still get those flyers that just bug me to no end. Hopefully this will help out alot.

 

[Richard Coody]

Looking into these two units and want some feed back from thoses who have them

My Goal is to try to separate my brass that is seat to light and to heavy and have a main core of brass in the middle. Trying to get more consistent reloads and tighten up my water line a little more. I think this could help. Ever since I broke down and started getting better tools like a high end e-scale and the AMP annealer and redding dies with bushings all my group sizes have been cut in half and my SD are in the single digits. But still get those flyers that just bug me to no end. Hopefully this will help out alot.

i have pretty much followed the same path. i have the 21st century shooting hydro press. it has taught me a whole lot about consistent neck tension. sorting by seating effort surely has improved my groups. Now i am in search of how to have consistent seating effort. i have tried several different full length sizing dies. both bushing and straight. good results with the whidden full length non bushing die with his expander ball kit and the harrell simi-custom bushing die. trying K&M's expander mandrel kit now.

i found neck turning, like annealing, was a must.

final sort by seating effort and consentricity turns out fine ammo

 

[Culater]

i have pretty much followed the same path. i have the 21st century shooting hydro press. it has taught me a whole lot about consistent neck tension. sorting by seating effort surely has improved my groups. Now i am in search of how to have consistent seating effort. i have tried several different full length sizing dies. both bushing and straight. good results with the whidden full length non bushing die with his expander ball kit and the harrell simi-custom bushing die. trying K&M's expander mandrel kit now.

i found neck turning, like annealing, was a must.

final sort by seating effort and consentricity turns out fine ammo

My question back to you did you make a set population of brass that gave you consistent seating pressure and load and shoot them. Then reprep the brass and get the same seating pressure.

 

[Richard Coody]

i have 50 cases carefully prepped. Have reloaded them 3 times. out of that 50 i will get 30 with the seating pressure i am looking for. i have tried three different sizing dies so far. my harrell selected from 3 fired cases is the most promising so far. trying K&M expander mandrel kit to see if it will produce more uniform neck tension now. Been in Colorado on vacation for a few months. Should be back in the shooting groove soon.

here are the steps i take loading rounds for my 6BR

weigh sort lapua brass
weigh sort and sort by bearing length berger bullets
neck turn brass
anneal brass every firing
leave carbon in the necks
charge with adam's autotrickler system
use a variety of sizing dies and expanders seeking that elusive neck tension
seat bullets with wilson die and 21st century shooting hydro press and sort by seating force
check concentricity on fired brass, sized brass and final loaded rounds and sort final rounds by runnout. perfect and less than .003

looking forward to the day when all 50 will have consistent seating force. i have learned a lot.

 

[Culater]

So 30 cases out of 50 will give the seating pressure your looking for. Have you ever separated the 30 cases and just tested them, by themselves to see if the seating pressure remains consistent after all the prep work?
Or
It doesn't matter, you will just get a different set of brass out the 50 cases that will get a consistent seating pressure due to resizing the brass and the brass growing and case prepping.

 

[KenOath]

i have 50 cases carefully prepped. Have reloaded them 3 times. out of that 50 i will get 30 with the seating pressure i am looking for. i have tried three different sizing dies so far. my harrell selected from 3 fired cases is the most promising so far. trying K&M expander mandrel kit to see if it will produce more uniform neck tension now. Been in Colorado on vacation for a few months. Should be back in the shooting groove soon.

here are the steps i take loading rounds for my 6BR

weigh sort lapua brass
weigh sort and sort by bearing length berger bullets
neck turn brass
anneal brass every firing
leave carbon in the necks
charge with adam's autotrickler system
use a variety of sizing dies and expanders seeking that elusive neck tension
seat bullets with wilson die and 21st century shooting hydro press and sort by seating force
check concentricity on fired brass, sized brass and final loaded rounds and sort final rounds by runnout. perfect and less than .003

looking forward to the day when all 50 will have consistent seating force. i have learned a lot.

Hi Richard,
Am curious when you check concentricity on fired brass do you find many that are out enough to cull? Also will you size that piece of brass that doesn't have acceptable concentricity?

Cheers Rushty

 

[Erik Cortina]

21st century hydro press is the best.

Lower neck tension to .001 - .0015
It should give you about 20 psi on press.

Any that have higher psi, mark primers with sharpie. After you fire them and need to load them again, use 400 grit sand paper on outside of necks to remove some material from neck. Don’t over do it. Do this every time you load your brass and it will get more consistent in seating PSI.

 

[Richard Coody]

So 30 cases out of 50 will give the seating pressure your looking for. Have you ever separated the 30 cases and just tested them, by themselves to see if the seating pressure remains consistent after all the prep work?
Or
It doesn't matter, you will just get a different set of brass out the 50 cases that will get a consistent seating pressure due to resizing the brass and the brass growing and case prepping.

no. sounds like a good idea though

i want to find a sizing tecnique that will give consistent neck tension. trying K&M expander mandrel kit now.

they really are not far off. my target seating force is 25 and the offenders are in the 30's. you would not even notice the difference with a standard press but you sure can see the difference on paper.

may just run them all back through the neck turner. make sure they are all uniform.

 

[Richard Coody]

21st century hydro press is the best.

Lower neck tension to .001 - .0015
It should give you about 20 psi on press.

Any that have higher psi, mark primers with sharpie. After you fire them and need to load them again, use 400 grit sand paper on outside of necks to remove some material from neck. Don’t over do it. Do this every time you load your brass and it will get more consistent in seating PSI.

great idea.

i am using a bushing in my harrell sizing die that is the same size as a loaded round now. my hope is using an expander mandrel about bullet diameter will get me where i want to be. i have them in sizes either way in .0005 increments

 

[Culater]

21st century hydro press is the best.

Lower neck tension to .001 - .0015
It should give you about 20 psi on press.

Any that have higher psi, mark primers with sharpie. After you fire them and need to load them again, use 400 grit sand paper on outside of necks to remove some material from neck. Don’t over do it. Do this every time you load your brass and it will get more consistent in seating PSI.

Ok Eric what do you do with the brass that fall way below your target seating pressure lets say 10 psi. I would assume that would be thown out of the brass population and into the scrap bin.Because you can do much to correct the issue or do you reneck size to a smaller bushing to see if the seating pressure will fall into your target seating pressure.

 

[lawrence97]

Wouldn’t using an expander mandrel before seating make everything uniform and show the same psi when seating instead of sanding the necks?

 

[Judd]

I have both for the lighter neck tensions I prefer the 21st Century. It's also much more convenient to change the height between shorter and taller cases. I don't dislike the K&M, I just like the 21st a little bit better.

 

[fguffey]

Now that the new seaters are measuring effort in pounds and there is no way to change tension to pounds and the instructions say they convert deflection to pounds and that .001" is equal to 1 pound; Why do reloaders insist on seating in tensions.

F. Guffey

 

[Richard Coody]

Now that the new seaters are measuring effort in pounds and there is no way to change tension to pounds and the instructions say they convert deflection to pounds and that .001" is equal to 1 pound; Why do reloaders insist on seating in tensions.

F. Guffey

tension is measured in newtons which is easily converted to pounds

https://www.google.com/search?clien...31k1j0i67k1j0i20i264k1j0i10k1.355.Q7DRvC-1SAk

now for my use the reading i get from my 21st century shooting hydro press is much like the reading i get from my OAL gauge. it is a datum. i know what datam works and that is what i am looking for. it may mean nothing to someone else but it is very important to me.

 

[rardoin]

Why do reloaders insist on seating in tensions.

F. Guffey

To give you a purpose in life....obviously.

 

[rardoin]

To give you a purpose in life....obviously.

Maybe a little harsh but......Hey....he threw a slowball right over the plate.....gotta take a swing at that one!

 

[Mulligan]

no. sounds like a good idea though

i want to find a sizing tecnique that will give consistent neck tension. trying K&M expander mandrel kit now.

they really are not far off. my target seating force is 25 and the offenders are in the 30's. you would not even notice the difference with a standard press but you sure can see the difference on paper.

may just run them all back through the neck turner. make sure they are all uniform.

You can see the difference on paper between 25 & 33 pounds of seating force? What is the acceptable tolerance in seating force?
CW

 

[Richard Coody]

You can see the difference on paper between 25 & 33 pounds of seating force? What is the acceptable tolerance in seating force?
CW

now when you get to this level of reloading if you don't have.a rifle.shooting consistently less than half a minute of angle and you are trying.to shave.off another 0.010 you are wasting your time.

for me the difference using a final sort of seating force and.perfrct concentricity is 5 shot groups in the 1's or the 2's. my final rounds are perfectly concentric and within a pound or two of 25.

this is a range toy. just seeing what is possible, what works and doesn't. i don't take it to this extreme with any of my other rifles.

 

[Culater]

You can see the difference on paper between 25 & 33 pounds of seating force? What is the acceptable tolerance in seating force?
CW

I can feel the difference when i seat my bullets but cant measure it at this time. Also I do feel it when im shooting with the recoil impulse if its a little lite or a little heavier. Yes it dose shows up on paper at longer distances. Again my whole premius for doing this is to get rid of brass that wont stay in set seating pressure.

 

[Culater]

Which inline seater do you guys like to use.