215 gr Match Hybrid Target

[XTR]

Phil,

I like to lead ya off topic just a second.

Are there any plans or talk of doing a heavy tactical bullet in the 6 mm and 6.5 mm bullets in the future? The 6 and 6.5 are really gaining popularity with tactical shooters and it be nice to have a bullet that isn't so sensitive to seating depths?

Everything I'm reading says the 105 Hybrid is pretty easy to shoot in a 6, I haven't been looking at the 6.5s in a while but, but when I was looking there the 140 was the bullet to use if you could drive it, if not drop back to the offerings from other companies in the 130 range. What weight/type are you looking for? Unless someone designed something as efficient and crazy easy to shoot as the 185LRBT/Jugg/OTM for the 6.5s and 6s

 

[JamesnTN]

it just seems overall the OTM Bullets are much more forgiving in all situations. whether its magazine fed or single loaded. They just shoot and shoot well. I've not yet played with any of the 6 or 6.5 Hybrids but I'd be out to say if Berger made one in the 103-107 grain range they have something there. same goes for the 6.5 in the 130-145 range. I've played with the 230 Hybrid in my 300 WM and one day it shoot lights out the next is shoot like a shotgun. The 230 OTM has shot well every time I've shot them no changes just shoot. I just got in 2 boxes of those 185 OTM's I'm gonna try in my 308 so we will see. The tactical guys love that bullet design is why I asked will there be a bullet in that design in the near future in the two calibers mentioned.

 

[paulT]

Hi XTR, Did you try playing around with seating depth and Neck Tension to reduce Horizontal issue, What speed were you running the 215s at, would you mind sharing you load data thanks.

 

[barefooter56]

JamesnTN,
Right now we are still playing "catch-up" like the rest of the industry. This has delayed new products from being produced and tested. We hope to make announcements at SHOT.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[6mmcldasher]

it just seems overall the OTM Bullets are much more forgiving in all situations. whether its magazine fed or single loaded. They just shoot and shoot well. I've not yet played with any of the 6 or 6.5 Hybrids but I'd be out to say if Berger made one in the 103-107 grain range they have something there. same goes for the 6.5 in the 130-145 range. I've played with the 230 Hybrid in my 300 WM and one day it shoot lights out the next is shoot like a shotgun. The 230 OTM has shot well every time I've shot them no changes just shoot. I just got in 2 boxes of those 185 OTM's I'm gonna try in my 308 so we will see. The tactical guys love that bullet design is why I asked will there be a bullet in that design in the near future in the two calibers mentioned.

I wonder if the 10 twist barrel is the cause for the 230 hybs to shoot erratically , would a 9.25 or 9.5 do a better job ?

 

[Down South]

it just seems overall the OTM Bullets are much more forgiving in all situations. whether its magazine fed or single loaded. They just shoot and shoot well. I've not yet played with any of the 6 or 6.5 Hybrids but I'd be out to say if Berger made one in the 103-107 grain range they have something there. same goes for the 6.5 in the 130-145 range. I've played with the 230 Hybrid in my 300 WM and one day it shoot lights out the next is shoot like a shotgun. The 230 OTM has shot well every time I've shot them no changes just shoot. I just got in 2 boxes of those 185 OTM's I'm gonna try in my 308 so we will see. The tactical guys love that bullet design is why I asked will there be a bullet in that design in the near future in the two calibers mentioned.

I wonder if the 10 twist barrel is the cause for the 230 hybs to shoot erratically , would a 9.25 or 9.5 do a better job ?

I've shot 215s and 230s in my 9.25 twist barrel in matches (FTR), they both shoot VERY well on the bench with front rest etc.......The problem with them comes in with the bipod, vertical appears at times if everything isn't perfect form wise etc......At times i've shot really good scores with them in matches (600 & 1000), especially with the 215s.......Nothing wrong with the bullet itself, they shoot.

As for 10 twist, i think its ok for the 215s but i think a little faster is better IMO and i think for the 230s i would definately shoot a faster twist to be safe........Just my .02

 

[Steve Blair]

As for 10 twist, i think its ok for the 215s but i think a little faster is better IMO and i think for the 230s i would definately shoot a faster twist to be safe........Just my .02

[br]
A agree with Jade. A 10" twist .308 WIn for 230's is very marginal, 9" twist would be the best choice. I've used 10" twists in .300 WSM with 230's to good effect but now shoot a 9.75" and my next barrel purchases will be 9.5". It's a long bullet.

 

[JamesnTN]

My 10 twist is in the 300 WM and shooting the 230 OTM I've shot as small as 1/4" at 300 yards but on avg it's shooting around 5/8's of an inch and the rifle just hammers them. Velocity on my load is 2804 fps. I'm thinking if I recall berger says 10 twist will work for the 230's

It just did not like the hybrids as mentioned before. Thing drove me crazy trying to get to shoot, one day 1/2" next day 2" same loads.

 

[Steve Blair]

My 10 twist is in the 300 WM and shooting the 230 OTM I've shot as small as 1/4" at 300 yards but on avg it's shooting around 5/8's of an inch and the rifle just hammers them. Velocity on my load is 2804 fps. I'm thinking if I recall berger says 10 twist will work for the 230's

It just did not like the hybrids as mentioned before. Thing drove me crazy trying to get to shoot, one day 1/2" next day 2" same loads.

[br]
No disrespect, James, but most folks shooting 230 Hybrids are not competing at 300 yards. It's true that I've won some 600 yards matches with my WSM but that was just practice and killing time until the next 1000 yard match. Bryan Litz's latest research, reflected in the Berger Twist Rate Calculator, favors faster twists to achieve optimal B.C. Also, the OTM is not the same bullet at the Target Hybrid. It has a shorter ogive with a smaller radius and is more easily stabilized. [br]
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

 

[Down South]

My 10 twist is in the 300 WM and shooting the 230 OTM I've shot as small as 1/4" at 300 yards but on avg it's shooting around 5/8's of an inch and the rifle just hammers them. Velocity on my load is 2804 fps. I'm thinking if I recall berger says 10 twist will work for the 230's

It just did not like the hybrids as mentioned before. Thing drove me crazy trying to get to shoot, one day 1/2" next day 2" same loads.

I think Steve hit the nail on the head, the 230 OTM is a different design than the 230 hybrid which needs a faster twist.......Same situation with 185 juggernauts and 185 hybrids.......The juggernauts tend to shoot well in 12 twist and the 185 hybrids run better in an 11 twist.

 

[JamesnTN]

My 10 twist is in the 300 WM and shooting the 230 OTM I've shot as small as 1/4" at 300 yards but on avg it's shooting around 5/8's of an inch and the rifle just hammers them. Velocity on my load is 2804 fps. I'm thinking if I recall berger says 10 twist will work for the 230's

It just did not like the hybrids as mentioned before. Thing drove me crazy trying to get to shoot, one day 1/2" next day 2" same loads.

[br]
No disrespect, James, but most folks shooting 230 Hybrids are not competing at 300 yards. It's true that I've won some 600 yards matches with my WSM but that was just practice and killing time until the next 1000 yard match. Bryan Litz's latest research, reflected in the Berger Twist Rate Calculator, favors faster twists to achieve optimal B.C. Also, the OTM is not the same bullet at the Target Hybrid. It has a shorter ogive with a smaller radius and is more easily stabilized. [br]
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

My 300 yard was for load development only to shoot 1000 yards. I don't see any point in testing at anything closer and once I find what I feel is right for 300 I will fine tune it at 500 and then do a test at 1000. But in the beginning all my load development is started at 300 sorry if this was if some misunderstanding.

 

[Steve Blair]

My 300 yard was for load development only to shoot 1000 yards. I don't see any point in testing at anything closer and once I find what I feel is right for 300 I will fine tune it at 500 and then do a test at 1000. But in the beginning all my load development is started at 300 sorry if this was if some misunderstanding.

[br]
That's Ok. I do all my load development at 100 yards. I go directly from load development to a match at 600 or 1000. No problems. Last year, I went to the Nationals with a load never shot past 300 or in a match. It was good enough to finish fifth and win Match 5. And, it wasn't the load that put four guys ahead of me. There is more than one way to develop loads.

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

My 10 twist is in the 300 WM and shooting the 230 OTM I've shot as small as 1/4" at 300 yards but on avg it's shooting around 5/8's of an inch and the rifle just hammers them. Velocity on my load is 2804 fps. I'm thinking if I recall berger says 10 twist will work for the 230's

It just did not like the hybrids as mentioned before. Thing drove me crazy trying to get to shoot, one day 1/2" next day 2" same loads.

I think Steve hit the nail on the head, the 230 OTM is a different design than the 230 hybrid which needs a faster twist.......Same situation with 185 juggernauts and 185 hybrids.......The juggernauts tend to shoot well in 12 twist and the 185 hybrids run better in an 11 twist.

My 185 juggernauts shoot great out of my 10 twist barrel

 

[barefooter56]

Guys,
The easy way to check twist rate is to go to the Berger Website and use the twist rate calculator to see where you are at and where you may need to go to get what you need. With the VLD and other "long nose" bullets like the Hybrid and OTM a little more twist than the minimum will help the bullet remain more stable as it enters the trans-sonic stage down range.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[paulT]

Just received a box of 215g hybrids to try out in my FTR 32in 1 in 10 twist 308 barrel, anyone share good starting point for Varget with this bullet and Lapua palma brass also how much neck Tension you guys using and are you sizing ALL of the neck with your brass and the 215g hybrid.

 

[Down South]

My 10 twist is in the 300 WM and shooting the 230 OTM I've shot as small as 1/4" at 300 yards but on avg it's shooting around 5/8's of an inch and the rifle just hammers them. Velocity on my load is 2804 fps. I'm thinking if I recall berger says 10 twist will work for the 230's

It just did not like the hybrids as mentioned before. Thing drove me crazy trying to get to shoot, one day 1/2" next day 2" same loads.

I think Steve hit the nail on the head, the 230 OTM is a different design than the 230 hybrid which needs a faster twist.......Same situation with 185 juggernauts and 185 hybrids.......The juggernauts tend to shoot well in 12 twist and the 185 hybrids run better in an 11 twist.

My 185 juggernauts shoot great out of my 10 twist barrel

Matt,

I know they do shoot great in your setup, i scored you at the Berger Nationals in Feb. for the team match and remember how tight your vertical was......I shot the 185 jugs out of my 10 twist also all of last year with great results as well......Point i was making was that the OTM design in general doesn't "have" to be shot out of a faster twist barrel to perform well unlike the hybrid design in the same weight bullet does......The 185 jugs seem to shoot very well in 10, 11, or 12 twist......Truely a great bullet design.

 

[Canadian bushman]

My biggest problem with the 215s in F-TR is managing the horizontal stringing from the recoil. I never really had vertical problems with them but I could get close to an MOA of horizontal in a no wind.

It is a great bullet, but in an F-TR rifle shooting 20 shot strings off of a bipod it is very difficult to manage consistently

Yup
My rifle is stupid accurate posting 1/4-1/2 moa consistenly from 800-1000 but once i get past 5 or 6 shots i start falling apart.
I can string them vertical or horizontal depending how i get behind the gun and apply cheek pressure.

The guys who shoot them well use a near free recoil technique that i havent figured out yet.

Probably wouldnt hurt to be on the upper end of the rifle weight limit as well.

 

[Down South]

My biggest problem with the 215s in F-TR is managing the horizontal stringing from the recoil. I never really had vertical problems with them but I could get close to an MOA of horizontal in a no wind.

It is a great bullet, but in an F-TR rifle shooting 20 shot strings off of a bipod it is very difficult to manage consistently

Yup
My rifle is stupid accurate posting 1/4-1/2 moa consistenly from 800-1000 but once i get past 5 or 6 shots i start falling apart.
I can string them vertical or horizontal depending how i get behind the gun and apply cheek pressure.

The guys who shoot them well use a near free recoil technique that i havent figured out yet.

Probably wouldnt hurt to be on the upper end of the rifle weight limit as well.

When i was shooting 215s and scored well in matches i was using very little cheek and hand pressure but i was using light/moderate shoulder pressure with the flex bipod......If i tried to use check and hand pressure it shot worse......With that being said, i could handle the 185s any way i wanted and they shot well.

 

[Canadian bushman]

I agree
I too shot higher aggs with the 185's, but i think that will change when i learn to shoot the 215's.

 

[Hillhunter]

Thanks to all who replied to this thread ,