.204 or ?

[1S2K]

Im sure this has been discussed at length in various forms, but I have maybe a bit different twist to it.
I have a .204 Ruger in Rem 700 and it shoots pretty good,,,about 1"-1 1/4" at 200 yards. I can live with that. But, I want to get a Varminter from Cooper to go with my other Cooper models. Before making my order, I wondered if there was a strong reason some have chosen to go to other 20 cal chamberings like the Vartag, etc? Am I missing something important by sticking with the .204 Ruger?
If you could fill me in, I can research further and then move ahead with getting my order in to Cooper. I would appreciate any wisdom you can share.
Oh, and yes, I reload.

 

[L.Sherm]

Most of it is personal preference, something like the 20 VT will have less barrel heat in a really hot rat patch , less recoil and very accurate. Just my 2 cents

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Nothing wrong with the 204 Ruger. I have one in a 700 as well. Trued action and 26" VSSF II Remington factory barrel. With careful load testing, I was able to get mine shooting under 1/2" at 200 yards. My load is 30gr of RL15 behind a 39gr Sierra BK with a Fed 205 primer. Running them about 3950 fps.

Had a 20 VT and liked it. Very accurate, but my 204 Ruger tuned just as easily. Though I never did manage to get my 20VT to shoot as accurately as my current 204 Ruger. The 20VT also has a lot more recoil than you would think when you get some speed going behind the bullets. Just because its little doesnt mean it wont bark. Enough so that it made it hard to watch the action at 100 yards and under while on high scope magnification. Barrel life may be better with the 20VT, but with less speed, less accuarcy (in my personal experience), and not a whole lot less recoil than my 204 Ruger, I didn't really see a huge advantage, so I traded the rifle on a nice scope.

I now have a custom barrel being built for one of my AR15s chambed in 20 Tactical. Supposedly the same performance and accuracy of the 204 Ruger, but has the advantage of utilizing readily available and very affordable 223 brass to form cases.

Here's one of the targets from my 204 Ruger 200 yard load testing. Sorry it's sideways. Lol



I did some tweaking to the seating depth and got it shooting as accurately with RL15 as the target shows with the BLC-2 powder. Can't find that target though...

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I did find one of my 100 yard targets when I was playing with RL15. This one is 29.9gr. Still can't find my other targets with 30gr load of RL15...
Anyhow, it will hold that 1/4 MOA accuracy very consistently at distances to about 500 yards if I can get a dead solid rest and there is NO wind. doesn't take much wind to screw those little bullets up.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Oh crap! My 200 yard RL15 load is on that first target picture. It's down in the bottom cut off from view. No wonder I couldn't find another target, it's on the same one! Oh man I'm starting to lose it :

I'll see if I can take a better picture and post it showing the 30gr of RL15 when I got it shooting better. I forgot that I also went to a CCI BR-4 primer.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ok...so I lied. The group measured 0.511" at 200 yards :



But here's another good group it shot at 200 yards with 28gr of RL15.



It also shot really good with IMR 4895 at 200 yards.




So as you can see. The 204 Ruger can do everything you desire for good Varminting accuracy if you're willing to work with it. I know every rifle is different, but the 204 can be very forgiving and easy to load for if you do it right. Mine shoots very well with multiple powders so I really can't ask for anything more.

PS: My rifle will probably shoot better than I can. But those are the best groups I could muster with the rest I had at the time and my not-so-expert skill level.

 

[th82457]

I own both a .204 and a 20VT and both shoot extremely well. The differences are the 20 VT seems to work best with 32 gr bullets while the 204 can handle up to 39 Sierras well. Both are 1:12 twist. The second difference is the VT will use about 8-8.5 grains less powder per round, which does result in less recoil all else being equal. The VT takes more effort initially on making brass, but in my opinion is more fun to shoot, less muzzle blast and does not heat the barrel nearly as quickly as the 204. I would grab the 20 VT for rapid fire PD type shooting, go to the 204 for bigger critters such as ground hogs or coyotes where shooting is not as frequent. I have used LC, Rem, Lapua and Nosler 221 brass in my VT and all shoot equally well when bras is properly prepared. Just my two cents. If I was building any 20 cal gun that I wanted to shoot bullets over 39 gr - I would go with a 1:11 twist. I have had trouble getting 40 V-Max or larger to shoot out of my 204.

Good Luck,
Terry

 

[IMMORTAL]

I too have a 204 but I also have a 20 TAC and 20 PRAC. Might want to look at those calibers also. Brass is more available and cheaper.

 

[MrMajestic]

I run the .20-.223AI mainly for the brass choices/availability. Also I hate trimming cases! ;D

 

[Bangs OH]

I own three .204s (Remington, CZ, Cooper); no Vartarg yet, but a couple .221 Fireballs, one of which might become a VT. Here's my take: spend the Cooper money on the longer-range .204 (also have the option of a repeater in the M51, if that's a consideration). Then convert your Remington to a . 20 VarTarg. Less to lose if it turns out the wildcat VT isn't your "cup of tea"; also, you can always find factory ammo for a .204 Cooper when you can't find components (and it'll probably shoot quite well with it).

 

[Gabe22BR]

I'd by a action, and barrel, and make your own. It'll be cheaper than a Cooper, and shoot better, plus you'll have plenty of smith's that'll be able to work on it when the time comes. Cooper doesn't rebarrel rifles.

 

[1S2K]

Guys, thank you for this input. It is exactly what I was looking for. I admit a preference for the 204R for all the reasons listed above. Plus, I already have about 500 pieces of new Nosler brass to use. You have pretty much confirmed my leanings while I still admit a curiosity for the 20VT. Bangs, OH, you might have the perfect solution to have both.
Ledd Slinger thanks for going to all the effort of posting those targets up. You've got a shooter. I most likely will be trying that RL 15 formula.
Im going to do some more research on the ballistics of the 20 cals, but at this point Im pretty confident I will go for the 204R. Ive had good experience with it and I'm old enough to be content with what I know will work for me.
By the way, most of my targets will be bigger critters like coyotes, fox, coons, etc. So high volume, high speed shooting is not anticipated.
Thanks to all again.

 

[drover]

I'd by a action, and barrel, and make your own. It'll be cheaper than a Cooper, and shoot better, plus you'll have plenty of smith's that'll be able to work on it when the time comes. Cooper doesn't rebarrel rifles.

Where did you come up with this misinformation about not rebarreling rifles, they rebarrel Coopers. Not an ounce of truth in in that statement.

drover

 

[tjtjwdad]

I'd by a action, and barrel, and make your own. It'll be cheaper than a Cooper, and shoot better, plus you'll have plenty of smith's that'll be able to work on it when the time comes. Cooper doesn't rebarrel rifles.

Where did you come up with this misinformation about not rebarreling rifles, they rebarrel Coopers. Not an ounce of truth in in that statement.

drover

Thats right. If you're the original owner the cost rebarrel is $150 bucks; if not it's $450 (AIRC)

HTH

 

[searcher]

That's a heck of a deal.

 

[SS427]

The 20VT will recoil noticeable less. My experience is with a Ruger #1 .204 and a Cooper 20VT...they both weighed about the same. The Ruger shot like crap, but I blame the gun, not the caliber. The Cooper shoots tiny groups; see 3 shot load development PDF below. However unlike a lot of people's experience, I can't see my hits with my 20VT due to what recoil there is.

Tough call...you already have dies and brass for the .204, and a Cooper in any small caliber will shoot lights out. I'm sure you would be happy with either choice.

I will say my 20VT is the most fun to shoot of any rifle I have ever owned. If the tax man had not taken my gun fund I would have an order in for a custom VT.

 

[1S2K]

That is some awesome accuracy Otter. I guess it all comes down to my reluctance to the hassle of forming the VT brass, while the 204R is readily available and ready to load. Am I missing something by this conclusion?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

That is some awesome accuracy Otter. I guess it all comes down to my reluctance to the hassle of forming the VT brass, while the 204R is readily available and ready to load. Am I missing something by this conclusion?

Yes. You are missing the fact that the 20VT shoots every bit as good with unformed cases as it does with formed cases. I would just neck down 221 Fireball brass, load and shoot. To be honest, some of the groups fired with brand new unformed cases were actually smaller than when I shot the identical load through the formed cases a second time. Pretty sure anyone who owns a 20VT and has done the same thing can attest to having the same experience.

Your main advantage here is that you are already geared up and ready to rock with the 204 Ruger. And secondly, the 204R will push the heavier higher BC bullets a lot better to give you that extra punch and accuracy at extended ranges that you will most likely encounter while hunting coyotes

 

[Waskawood]

I guess it all comes down to my reluctance to the hassle of forming the VT brass, while the 204R is readily available and ready to load. Am I missing something by this conclusion?

I like both my 204 and my 20 VT but I believe you are missing on both of these. 204 Ruger seems impossible to find at the moment and there is nothing hard about forming 20 VT brass.

 

[tjtjwdad]

I have the 204, 20VT and 221FB. I like them all and they all can do under .250-inches @ 200 yards [5-shot groups] if I do my part. I find that the 221FB & 20VT are noticeably quieter than the 204. I haven't tried the heavy bullets [39/40 gr] in the 20VT but my hunch is, the 204 will shoot them a tad faster than thee 20VT could.

My velocities are as follows;

204 [39 SBK] 3700
221FB [40 Nosler B-Tip] 3280
20VT [32 Nosler B-Tip] 3850

Unlike some have mentioned here, I can easily see hits with my 204, even those several hundred yards away. Personally, I feel that is more of a function of the weight of the rifle set up. The 204 and 20VT are Remington 700's in HS Precision PSV-96 stocks and the 221FB is a Cooper M21 Montana Varminter.

HTH,