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2012 F-Class National Championships now only a 1000 yard match

I agree, but I was looking more to take an aggregate view of the 600 yard stage so as not to single out anyone. I would encourage everyone to review the raw data from the match bulletins and make their own decisions.

A great example of the win/lose at 600 was 1st and 2nd in F/TR. Jeff won by the lead he created on day 1 at 600 yards. If it had not been for that yardage, first and second would have flipped due to X-count.

I think that the "National Champion" should be the person that demonstrates an overall command of the entire game. That includes all regular yardages at a minimum (remember, 300 and 500 are "reduced" yardages). I understand about having to hump the gear around, but that is one of the things that keeps us from building 75 pound front rests and rear bags that look like we are trying to stop a flood.

What would I like?

Day 1 - either 3X600 or mid-range course (3,5,and 6)
Day 2 - Palma
Day 3 - 3X1000

That is just my preference. It in no way should be construed to be what is "right."
 
How is 3x 600yds lumping gear around the place? You still shoot from the same mound all day.
BTW, I would surely like what you recommended.
Day 1 - either 3X600 or mid-range course(3,5,and 6) (I think a 3,5,600 course would be good)
Day 2 - Palma
Day 3 - 3X1000
I think that would be the perfect National Championship.
 
"Moving gear" was one of the reasons stated in another thread for changing from the 8,9,1k format a few years ago. I didn't get what that had to do with this change either.

In my opinion, if we are trying to field a great national team (another stated reason for removing 600 - world champs are 8,9,1k), then why should we be shlumping super-heavy gear to the line at nationals knowing that the same gear will get kicked to the curb when it comes time to fly somewhere? For that matter, why aren't we just shooting the world championships course of fire?

I think something went haywire somewhere and we got the short end of the stick. Everyone has a favorite yardage. I have mine, but I don't propose we shoot only my favorite. To me "National Champion" means more than good wind calls for a couple of days at one yardage. It means a person that has the ability to adapt to an ever changing environment (that means yardage too) and come out on top anyway.

Once again, just my opinion, take it for what you paid for it.
 
Busdriver said:
In my opinion, if we are trying to field a great national team (another stated reason for removing 600 - world champs are 8,9,1k), then why should we be shlumping super-heavy gear to the line at nationals knowing that the same gear will get kicked to the curb when it comes time to fly somewhere? For that matter, why aren't we just shooting the world championships course of fire?

Just my opinion... but the US FCNC course of fire doesn't necessarily have jack-all to do with the FCWC course of fire. The two are separate events, and in my view, the American FCNC course of fire should reflect the sport as it is shot *here*, and no where else. *Here*, in the USA, we do shoot a lot of mid-range F-Class. International team development is a separate matter entirely and should be treated as such.

I've challenged one of the 1000yd-only proponents to find out just how many scores are turned in MR vs. LR - not just how many classified shooters (about 50/50, with perhaps a slight edge to MR), not how many matches, but how many shooters are attending those matches and turning in scores in MR vs. LR. I'd bet a box of donuts that its probably at least 2 to 1 in favor of MR.

Monte
 
Monte,

I'm certain we agree on that. I was playing devil's advocate. I think that the US nationals should be more than just a team selection (it has always been more - why change now?).

I won't take your bet on MR vs. LR because I know in my heart that you are right. Just look at the WSRPA schedule for next year. There are far more MR events available than LR.

BTW, are you shooting Plantation this weekend?

Keith
 
I'll be there... I'm just burning up a barrel shooting mid-range ;D

My hope is to tune up my skills a little before the long range season starts. I'll need everything I can get gun-handling wise so I can concentrate more on the wind.
 
lperry63 said:
Busdriver said:
Day 1 - either 3X600 or mid-range course (3,5,and 6)
Day 2 - Palma
Day 3 - 3X1000

Oh yeah! Now that would be a great championship match.

Laura

I'm with Laura X 10!!

This sport is taking off and becoming very popular. I think alot of its growth can be attributed to the fact it can be shot at mid-range. While I love shooting at 1K more than mid range, I hope to attend at least 3 1k matches this coming yr, I will be shooting 5-6 matches at mid-range. Why? Because mid range is more readily available and easier to attend. I am there to shoot and learn, if I cant shoot worth a darn at 600, how can I expect to shoot at 1K?

I would like to add that this has been a very good discussion here on this board. I have read other boards postings and dont like reading some of the commentary that has taken place. Some of it reflects elitist views. Nothing turns off the new shooter quicker than that!!

I really love this sport because 98% of the shooters I have encountered are just great people to shoot with. They are there for the same reasons, to learn, to share knowledge, to excel with knowledge gained, and to have fun. I am on that line to beat myself... 8)

Rod
 
While I'm not in favor of the new 1000yd-only format, thats not really the part that gets my blood boiling. I know some of the people involved, and I don't *honestly* think there was much in the way of ulterior motives - they have their views about F-Class and LR and are certainly entitled to them as I am to mine. I don't believe there was any intention of excluding folks... although I do believe that will be the result.

What *really* hacks me off is the way the whole thing came about - and by that I mean the way the NRA-appointed HP Rifle committee functions in general w/ regard to new proposals or changes. I don't necessarily put the blame entirely on the committee so much as I do the NRA itself. Ironically for a rights-of-the-people organization, its never really been (as far as I can see) a 'for-the-people-by-the-people' org when it comes to the rules and such. This latest debacle is a classic example: someone had an idea. Whether we agree with it or not, they had a right to submit it along with their reasons and arguments *for* it. Okay, fine. Where the problems start cropping up is that *NOBODY* outside the HP committee or the people involved in submitting the proposal have any idea, or any opportunity to present counter arguments or opposing view points. NONE.

Some folks (here and elsewhere) have put forth that the burden of canvassing the 'body' of F-Class shooters to see what they really want should have fallen upon the persons submitting the rule change proposal. While I don't necessarily disagree with that in principal, it doesn't address the fundamental problem - there is no mechanism in place for anyone to see what proposals are coming up before the HP committee. The NRA essentially has them operating behind closed doors, rather than in a public and open manner.

What I would propose is something like this: Lets say the HP Committee meeting is October 15th (just picking a date, doesn't really matter). The closing date for submitting new proposals for consideration should be 4 weeks prior, or September 15th. The NRA Competitions department obviously has the mechanisms in place to publicize the *results* of the Committee meeting in the form of the emails (by opt-in subscription) and Facebook posts to interested parties... now let them publish a list of the proposals *before the meeting* with a 2 week comment period. Other competitors besides just the ones submitting the proposed changes would then have a chance to voice their opinions on the items. The comment period would close two weeks before the meeting, giving time to sift and collate the responses in preparation for the committee meeting.

Do I expect the committee members to read each and every response? Not realistically, no. But I do think that giving the members of the shooting community actually affected by the proposed changes an opportunity to voice their opinions for or against the docket items, and giving the committee members an opportunity to get a better feel for what the people they represent *want*, would lead to a better process all around. The current setup where competitors get blind-sided by the new rules changes every January, with no idea where the changes came from or why, seems to lead to a lot of discontent among the ranks, as well as animosity against the 'faceless' members of the HP committee who are volunteers doing a relatively thankless job. A little more 'connection' between the two entities I think would go a long ways to avoiding some of the more vocal dissent. There will always be times the committee has to make unpopular decisions, just as there will always be people who would, as my father would put it, complain about being hung with a new rope. Thats unavoidable. But the way business is done now... behind closed doors, with negligible input from the people most affected... is inexcusable.

YMMV,

Monte
 
Nodak7mm said:
lperry63 said:
Busdriver said:
Day 1 - either 3X600 or mid-range course (3,5,and 6)
Day 2 - Palma
Day 3 - 3X1000

Oh yeah! Now that would be a great championship match.

Laura


I really love this sport because 98% of the shooters I have encountered are just great people to shoot with. They are there for the same reasons, to learn, to share knowledge, to excel with knowledge gained, and to have fun. I am on that line to beat myself... 8)

Rod


I have to agree. I am new to this sport and really love shooting. I have noticed it is more difficult to be proficient at the various distances. So the format suggested would be a great test of skill and adaptability.

I was really surprised to see how the process for rule changes take place with little or should I say no input from the competitors.

I know I am really lucky to be a member of Winnequah, where I can shoot 1000 yds, not all ranges have that capability. If this last Nationals had only been at 1000 yds, I don't know if I would have tried. Being a very new shooter (started May 2012), the whole concept of shooting with some of the best was unnerving.

Rita
 
shes going to shoot but shes also going to keep dr dunbar, bob, and me in line. i bet shes thrilled to be stuck with us for 60 hours worth of driving ;D
 
all rules are made to quiet the squeaking wheel and a winner will find a way to win! Its time to get to get to work guys !
 
Yes going to shoot in AZ... why the heck else would I take a 60 hour drive without a gas mask with three guys. (OK I do have a gas mask, but I can't find my inserts!) Just think of the education I am going to get!

I am looking forward to shooting at a different range (and the warmer weather).

And boys... not my job to keep you in line.
 
Rita,

Attending that shoot is a great opportunity for you, observe, learn, shoot and meeting other shooters!!!. Awesome for you.

The drive there and back, well I wish you luck, paitence and regular tinkle stops.....

Rod
 
Thanks Rod!

I am going to really enjoy the warmer weather. Hopefully the drive will go by fast, that is until I am driving...never driven with a trailer. Should be a great time as long as I don't have to back it up!

Shooting in this cold and some snow has been interesting this winter. We have been getting out each week early in the morning to shoot. When it gets cold the pasters don't like to stick and you have to warm them up first.
 
:o WARMER weather you say RITA???? have you ever seen snow flakes hangin on cactas??? - IT HAPPENS IN PHEONIX!! ::)

yes, it maybe t-shirt weather later in the day. but, when your standing in the squading line at 0730 [in the shade of the berm] with the wind blowing - you best have your MITTENS!

and if it rains ---

best be prepared!

yes, yes, i know - WISCONSIN is COLD. - remember i grew up there [in the years when it was really cold and we had to walk to school - up hill both ways] but, the desert will get you if your careless!!

lookin forward to seeing the 'gang' and eatin some GREAT PIZZA!!

HABU ;D
 
Rain gear???? It never rains in Arizona! Or is that suppose to be California? Yes it gets cold at night, but it's been colder here so ready for it.

And you forgot snow up to the armpits!

My Dad grew up in Phoenix so he is warning me as well of temperature swings.

Pizza, beer and tequila!
 

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