I guess that is too old? It has been closed up good but there has been temperature swings from 20-105 degrees.
20 year old powder?
- Thread starter hillbillydruggist
- Start date
mainly IMR it all smells funny, how Will it look if it is bad?
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
I've seen 40 year old IMR-4895 that has shot fine. - It was stored in a consistent 64-68 degree temp.
I still have the last 10 pounds of a 100 pound pasteboard keg of military surplus H4831 that my dad purchased about 1960 (for about $35). I still shoot it in hunting class rifles and have never had a problem with it. Shot some MOA groups with a .270 that I loaded up this past weekend. Unless it's gotten wet, I don't see a problem. If temperature variation was a problem, the military would have serious problems. I've been in Army ammo storage bunkers that were over 100 and were freezing in the winter.
~Gary
I guess I am different than most. I reload for guns that get shot a lot, and any jug that has been open for a yr or more may get tested, but I'm not going to rely on it. First, I probably do not have enough of it to wear a barrel out, then I mostly likely wont be able to find the same lot if it runs out. Around here 12 or less singles of a powder is just a waste.
I have used some really old powders. However they were never opened even though decades passed. Storage has not what you call ideal. Mainly 4831.
Also H380. But I do look closely at it when I used it mainly to see if there are any rust colored specks in it and if so I pass. The H380 still had that sweet smell to it. Unfortunately 2 kegs of Red Dot and Bullseye (cardboard containers) I tossed mainly because the outsides of the containers were one step away from growing hair! Not taking a chance with them though I have no clue what had happened to the powder and I was not about to find out.
( maybe 30-40 years old on some....no longer remember)
Also H380. But I do look closely at it when I used it mainly to see if there are any rust colored specks in it and if so I pass. The H380 still had that sweet smell to it. Unfortunately 2 kegs of Red Dot and Bullseye (cardboard containers) I tossed mainly because the outsides of the containers were one step away from growing hair! Not taking a chance with them though I have no clue what had happened to the powder and I was not about to find out.
( maybe 30-40 years old on some....no longer remember)
Ive had numerous cannisters of powder that were at least 30 years old if not 40 years. Most was stored in the house, pre A/C era. Much was stored in out buildings and the climate bounced from "0" to over 120* in summer. The only issue Ive ever had was a batch of GIH322 about 12 one pounders. It lasted a tad over 5 years when the lids started to corrode and the canisters gave off a very acrid odor and brownish "vapor", probably the equivalent of fuming HNO3. They were quickly spread on the lawn and as such safely dispossed. As a rule it is thought that double base powders are more stable than single base. And sphericals the most stable. Ive never seen any ballistic issues with old powder outside of lot to lot variance. For example I see 4-6 grain variance(on 70-85 grain charge) on new modern powders just purchased.
Some of these powders such as AL-7, which Ive found to be one of the best reduced cast bullet powders in both rifles such as 300WSM or 375R. Its so good I just hate to use it up. I think its been out of production since the '70s
Some of these powders such as AL-7, which Ive found to be one of the best reduced cast bullet powders in both rifles such as 300WSM or 375R. Its so good I just hate to use it up. I think its been out of production since the '70s
To the best of my knowledge, SAAMI doesn’t specifically state an expiration date for propellants, at least, not that I’ve seen listed anywhere. CIP, however, does. According to their literature, they recommend ten years from date of manufacture.
The problem here, is that most of us have used powders or ammunition that was decades older than this, so the impression is that powder and ammunition is essentially stable forever under the right conditions. It’s not. It’s an organic compound that breaks down with time, especially depending on storage conditions. While I’ve used ammo and powders that I know were over the half century mark, I’ve also seen powder deteriorate badly, even when properly stored. During their production process, powders are mixed with and exposed to a number of acids, and washed thoroughly before drying. I’ve always suspected that the presence of trace amounts of SOME of these acids had a hand in a determining just how well a given powder may age. Regardless, the usual cautions apply to ALL powders; look for signs of visual deterioration, especially a reddish “dust” when decanted, clumping, or an unpleasant and vey acrid odor. Definitely different, and immediately recognizable from the mild ether smell we normally associate with new powders. When in doubt, toss it.
The problem here, is that most of us have used powders or ammunition that was decades older than this, so the impression is that powder and ammunition is essentially stable forever under the right conditions. It’s not. It’s an organic compound that breaks down with time, especially depending on storage conditions. While I’ve used ammo and powders that I know were over the half century mark, I’ve also seen powder deteriorate badly, even when properly stored. During their production process, powders are mixed with and exposed to a number of acids, and washed thoroughly before drying. I’ve always suspected that the presence of trace amounts of SOME of these acids had a hand in a determining just how well a given powder may age. Regardless, the usual cautions apply to ALL powders; look for signs of visual deterioration, especially a reddish “dust” when decanted, clumping, or an unpleasant and vey acrid odor. Definitely different, and immediately recognizable from the mild ether smell we normally associate with new powders. When in doubt, toss it.
I have several pounds of various IMR powder that was stored in great temp swings like that. It’s from a old shed that I use to reload in. Powder still looks good and I’m sure it would shoot fine. Finally had time to get back into loading again a few years ago. I won’t use that old powder though for several reasons. First, I don’t trust my memory. What if I was cleaning out my powder measure way back then and dumped it back in a different can of powder. Just to many variables, and writing off the hundred dollar plus cost of that small lot of powder sure makes me sleep better at night.
Man, maybe I should try that.....I don't sleep for shit!
Yes, that alone would stop me immediately. The one thing that I have always been strict with always is that only the powder that I am currently loading and its container is the only powder on my bench.
My mind was probably sharper when I was 20 rather than 30 something years later. But something tells me My mind was easier disstractted back then!
Yes I agree, although now I................sorry lost track of what I was thinking!
Downhill
Gold $$ Contributor
I finally gave up a surplus jug of IMR 4895. In 308 the starting load with a 150g would flatten primers. 2 grains below the reloading manuals looked safe. Velocities were within reason but extreme spreads were astronomical. Tried in 3 different rifles. Looked good and no abnormal smell. Purchased in the late 80's to early 90's, 8lbs, white jug with generic style label.
Yep, me too.
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wkdickinson
Gold $$ Contributor
I am using up the remains of an 8# jug of Varget that is about 20 years. It has been stored in my basement and not opened for maybe 15 of those 20 years. I am using it in both 308 Win 185 VLD and 223 both 69 & 80 SMK. I have chrono'd them and can't see any issues.
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