20 Vartarg Turbo

[Mark M.]

Any experience or thoughts, thanks

 

[SmokinJoe]

That is just a 20-222 Improved. I think you will get more feedback at saubier.com.

 

[1raggedhole]

Any experience or thoughts, thanks

Suggest you buy Todd Ks 20 book. Decent amount of info.

 

[B23]

In all honesty, the VTT is just a 20-222 with a 30degree shoulder VS the 23degree shoulder on the straight 20-222. I researched the bejeezuz out of the 20 VTT and straight 20-222 before I had mine built and there is just no measurable difference between the two. I know TK has a very strong following with his VT and VTT, and for good reason, because they both are great little cartridges, but in all actuality, neither does anything any better than their counterparts, the 20-221 and 20-222. If a person is looking for more performance, have a 20-223 AKA 20Practical built instead.

My 20-222 is one of my favorite rifles. I'm using 22.5gr H322, which is a fairly mild-ish load, with 40gr Bergers and out of the 11tw 26in Hart barrel it gives 3660fps with very low ES and stacks them into itty bitty little groups. I'm using Redding 222 bushing dies and a Redding 222 Comp seater.

 

[JohnHenry]

Any experience or thoughts, thanks

For some reason Todd shortened the 222 parent case by approximately 0.1 inches when designing the 20VTT. 20-222 is better choice in my opinion. If one wants a little more velocity consider the 20 Practical(20-223). The 20 Practical has approx 10% more case capacity than the 20-222.
http://www.tripledeuce.net/Cartridge_Comparisons_0SJN.php

FYI: http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9548

 

[17VLD]

I love my 20 Dusters,have 3 now.I started with the 20 VT and enjoyed it so much I thought a little more would be better so I had Greg Tannel build me a dedicated pd rifle with a BAT SV and a Shehane Tracker stock the 11 twist barrel shoots 40s right at 3750 into tiny groups and really is perfect for all day dog shooting.The Duster is very similar to the VTT but instead of the 30 degree shoulder the Duster has a 40 degree shoulder.Back then I liked the idea of using Lapua 222 brass and having a bit more power than the 20VT,love this rifle.In hindsight and if I was being truly honest I have only bested my 20 VT in the pd towns by about 30 yards with a first shot kill at 576 yards with the Duster.Iuse my 20 VT with 32s and the Duster is mostly used with 40s.Now that Lapua makes 221 brass I’m not sure if I would have chosen to build another rifle so close in performance to the VT,it is a definite improvement but was it really needed?Perhaps a little bigger step up might make more sense,like a 20 BR
Your choice,definitely lots of fun no matter which cartridge you choose to build.
Matt

 

[SmokinJoe]

For a larger 20 cal some of us really like our 20-223AI's. Easy to form, no brass growth and easy 4000 fps with 40 gr bullets + great accuracy & lots of brass possibilities.

 

[17VLD]

For a larger 20 cal some of us really like our 20-223AI's. Easy to form, no brass growth and easy 4000 fps with 40 gr bullets + great accuracy & lots of brass possibilities.

That’s pretty much what my coyote rifle is and I’m here to tell you a 40 Berger at 4000fps is quite the stuff for killing coyotes DRT
Matt

 

[17VLD]

Not sure Mark what your quarry will be,perhaps a little of everything?
My original post was sort of aimed at all day shooting in pd town.
If you really wanna thump a coyote with a 20,that changes things a bit.
Matt

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Mark,

I'm having a 20-222 A.I. done on a Borden BR action for a 1-11 Krieger. Second barrel will be a 20 Tactical. (1-10 twist Krieger)
A 20-222 should be about as easy as it comes and an improved version where the headspace is 0.003 shorter no problem either if one was looking to go that route. - my plan is to run 39 & 40 grain bullets and have the barrels at 25". It will be set up on a ST1000F stock as I want to shoot it off a rest. - I chose both the 20-222 A.I. and the 20 Tactical to use Lapua brass. - Will run a 0.2330 neck in both and nk-turn for loaded rounds to be 0.230.
If your looking for a reamer print(s) I can share that with you. - I had JGS do the reamers & gages on both.

- Ron -

 

[B23]

LA50SHOOTER, just curious here, but why would you go through the extra work to improve the 222 case when all it really does is match a 223 case? You could have saved yourself a little time and money by building a 20 Practical.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

LA50SHOOTER, just curious here, but why would you go through the extra work to improve the 222 case when all it really does is match a 223 case? You could have saved yourself a little time and money by building a 20 Practical.

B23,
A 222 and a 223 case have differing case capacities and it will surely be apparent in a 20 caliber offering.
I wanted something different and am willing to spend the money and the time to get it. - I realize that the straight 20 practical is "the most practical" and cost effective solution to getting a good accurate 20 caliber rig up and going.

I want something that had less body taper and a sharper shoulder than the 23 degree shoulder on 223 & 20 Practical brass.

Building the rifle was not about saving money or time at all. - When one spends the money on a Borden BR action with a Bix Trigger and puts a custom barrel blank(s) along with a custom Benchrest stock, I'd say that he's past the point of doing either saving money or time.

My original plan was to go with the 20 Tactical (because I like less body taper & a sharper shoulder) and the 20 VarTarg -Turbo. - When I researched the VarTarg-Turbo it wasn't what I wanted so I opted to neck down the 222 case to 20 caliber, use less body taper and a 40 degree shoulder. - So in essence I've built an Ackley Improved Version of a 20-222.

I'm using Lapua brass & neck turning which isn't a time or money saving proposition either. - I like doing projects, I have done quite a few over the last 12 years, some are more "conventional" as far as caliber selection goes and this 20 caliber project I had a change of heart in mid-stream and that's where its lead me. - I'm not saying that what I'm doing is "better" by conventional wisdom at all, but the path is set.
Once I've fire-formed some brass in both calibers I'll send 3 pieces of each along with the chamber reamer print to Whidden's and get a F/L sizer die made for each. - Along with the barrels being chambered, I'm having a Wilson Straight-line Bullet Seater die done. - I think my "Accuracy Expectations" will be met in both calibers with proper bullet selection and load work-up.

- Ron -

 

[NCVarhtr]

The 20 VTT is one of my favorite varmint cartridges. For speed its right on the heels of the 20 Tac. I had a 20 VT and once I tried the 20 VTT, I had my 20 VT rechambered to the 20 VVT . When Todd Kindler developed the 20 VTT, he used the 20 VT reamer and just ran it in far enough to to take the .222 case, thus-the neck is .050 shorter than the .222 case. When my Gunsmith had his reamer made for the 20 VTT, he had the .222 neck left the full length. So you don't have to trim the neck back .050. I like that a lot. With the 40 Gr V-Max, I'm getting over 3650 fps with a short 22" barrel. H-4198 has worked so well for me that I have used that for the last 5 or 6 years. I really like that little cartridge a lot.

 

[varget204]

Anything one can do w/ 20 VTT,you can do faster and a lot less trouble with a 204 ruger,especially with 40 grain bullets.Unless you are shooting at High Elevation like 4-5000 ft or more

 

[Evan]

Anything one can do w/ 20 VTT,you can do faster and a lot less trouble with a 204 ruger,especially with 40 grain bullets.Unless you are shooting at High Elevation like 4-5000 ft or more

Better brass, including Lapua and Norma, for the 20 VTT. Less powder and heat means you shoot longer without stopping. 204 Ruger has maybe 200fps on it. Honestly, the only reason to go 204 ruger is to have cheap factory dies and off the shelf ammo. Everything else is better with a 20 tac, 20 practical, 20 VTT, or my personal favorite, the 20VT.

 

[Tommie]

Anyone care to venture the pressures involved when achieving 4000 FPS with a 40 grain bullet in a .204 Ruger or smaller case?

 

[varget204]

Anyone care to venture the pressures involved when achieving 4000 FPS with a 40 grain bullet in a .204 Ruger or smaller case?

There is Zero Data listed to load 40 grain bullets in 204 ruger at 4000 fps,I believe Accurate 2520, X-terminator one can reach about 3900 fps out of the right rifle.The fastest loads w/40 grain bullets are listed at 3850 fps

 

[Tommie]

There is Zero Data listed to load 40 grain bullets in 204 ruger at 4000 fps,I believe Accurate 2520, X-terminator one can reach about 3900 fps out of the right rifle.The fastest loads w/40 grain bullets are listed at 3850 fps

Thank you. My point exactly. 4,000 FPS is in the high pressure zone in a .20 BR let alone anything with less powder capacity and there simply isn't any easy (or safe) 40 grain 4K FPS happening in a .204 or smaller case. Can 4,000 be achieved? Yeah, probably. You'll never catch me attempting such a stunt though. Seems like "measured" rifle velocity numbers tend to get rounded up just like the weight of that trophy bass...or the quarter mile time of a hot rod...or the length of a golf drive on the 12th hole.

Keep it safe, fellas.

 

[B23]

Thank you. My point exactly. 4,000 FPS is in the high pressure zone in a .20 BR let alone anything with less powder capacity and there simply isn't any easy (or safe) 40 grain 4K FPS happening in a .204 or smaller case. Can 4,000 be achieved? Yeah, probably. You'll never catch me attempting such a stunt though. Seems like "measured" rifle velocity numbers tend to get rounded up just like the weight of that trophy bass...or the quarter mile time of a hot rod...or the length of a golf drive on the 12th hole.

Ohhh, you hear alllll kinds of crazy velocity figures tossed around out there on these forums. Without a doubt, my favorites, are when folks post about these crazy fast velocities, then add, "and that's with no pressure signs" LOL those are my favorites for sure. My second favorite is when they give their specific load and it figures out to be about 115+ or ++ % fill capacity.

As you mentioned, they definitely get rounded up but I think they not only get rounded up, but they get a few hundred FPS added to them in the rounding up process. Maybe it's that "new math" I keep hearing about.