20 Vartarg Questions

[SS427]

My next rifle, still a ways out, is going to be a 20 VarTarg so I'm starting my research now. Got a few questions.

My first question is what rifle I should get or build I should do. I have a Savage LRPV in .223 that I am thinking about using. It has a much larger action than needed, but it has a good H.S. Precision stock and I actually like the target Accutrigger. Could be a cheap way to go. The other option is buying a Cooper, but then I lose all control over the reamer used unless I'm willing to spend the extra money Cooper wants to go custom. At the high end, I'd like to use a BAT SV action, Jewell trigger, benchrest stock and a heavy varmint barrel cut at 21 or 22 inches. But is this caliber worth spending high end money on? Would I give up much with such a short barrel?

I want this light recoiling rifle for my 300ish yard sage rat rifle, so I'm thinking 32 grain bullets. Anyone have advice on reamer specs for those length of bullets if I decide to go that direction?

Last question, Sinclair doesn't list very many brands of dies for the 20 VarTarg. In fact all I could find was Redding dies. Anyone else offer dies for the 20 VarTarg? Does Wilson make a seating die? Would it be worth going with a custom sizing die? Or would a neck die be acceptable in this caliber?

I have money set aside for the rifle or build. I just don't know which direction to go...any advice would be appreciated.

 

[tdoyka]

try saubier.com for your 20 caliber needs!!!!! the 20 vartarg comes in hornady full length dies(i am trying these first), and mine is a t/c encore 16 1/4" MGM barrel, with a high plains custom rifle stock. the dies will be in mid-november and i'll start shooting. yours should get 300 - 350 yards, mine will go 200 - 250 yards....

 

[Jefferson]

dakota makes a nice 20 vartarg for about 2200 bucks, almost as nice as the BAT

Jeff

 

[th82457]

My Vartarg has a 22.5" #3 taper Douglas and shoots very well. I use a Redding bushing neck die and a Redding body die for sizing with an RCBS custom seating die. This seems to work well for me. Depending on your chamber - keep a close eye on neck thickness, I turn mine for a loaded neck diameter of .227-.228" max. You will not be disappointed with this cartridge. Mine is built on a CZ 527, making it a very handy walking rifle that is still extremely accurate and pleasant to shoot. Mine will shoot 32,35 & 39 gr. bullets well - but I generally shoot 32's for the added velocity when only using 18-19 gr. of powder.

Terry

 

[hedditch]

I am very, very satisfied with my Cooper. Problem is, if you order one it will take about a year to get it. Look for a used Cooper but that might take a year also and it will be cheaper than a new one.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

Otter: Any of your rifle choices sound well conceived except using a large Savage action for a 20VT. With such a small, efficient and short case, a rifle such as a LRPV IMO would be much too large for the small 20VT case. You'll have much more weight and bulk than a rifle of this caliber deserves, wheather it's a bench or walkabout rifle.

I would not be too concerned with reamer specs if you choose Cooper....most Cooper 20VT's that I'm familiar with shoot groups in the .1's and .2's (mine included). Not sure how much more accuracy you require, but my Cooper M38 20VT has exceeded my expectations in both accuracy and velocity in the rat patch. Not sure a custom reamer would make any difference with displayed inherient accuracy displayed to date.

The wait would be well worth it. JMO

 

[NorCalMikie]

Stick with the Savage platform. And, being a Savage, you can swap barrels to a different caliber when needed. Pick up a custom barrel with the freebore where "you want it". None of the off the shelf chamberings that are "one size fits all". Short throat so you can jam your bullets into the lands.

 

[bouddha]

Wilson does make a .20 VarTarg Neck die and a seater die. I also use a Redding body die to bump when/if necessary.

 

[th82457]

I personally like the CZ 527 as it is a mini-action that is tailor made for any .223 case head size cartridge. Not fancy, not expensive - but they shoot very well - even with a light barrel. My best group with my Vartarg is 5 shots in .2", but almost anything I have tried will put 5 in .7" or less most times much less. I have not had a Cooper in the Vartarg, but I have had two Coopers and while they are excellent rifles - neither approached the consistent accuracy that I have received from multiple CZ's (20 VT, .204, .221, .222, .223, .222 Mag.). I have had very good luck with the factory barrels and two that I had re-barreled (20 VT & .222 Mag.). Just my two cents worth. The key to the CZ's accuracy is making sure barrel is properly free-floated and recoil lug/action is bedded correctly on a wood stocked model.

 

[SS427]

Rick - are you able to reach the lands with 32 grain bullets in your Cooper? I know it might not matter since the accuracy clearly speaks for itself, but I am curious. I have a good Internet friend that raves about the accuracy of his 20VT Cooper. I am leaning toward the Cooper...as of today. I actually would like a heavier rifle than the Cooper though. I use a real light hold on my rifles. Are you able to see impacts with yours?

NorCalMikie - I'm not interested in a swap barrel rifle, so would that change your suggestion? I like to be able to start at jam for my load development, thus my concern about the reamer to be used.

th82457 - never owned a CZ and never really thought about buying one. Do they offer the 20VT caliber? I don't think they do and have no interest in buying a new gun and re-barreling it.

bouddha - thanks for the info about the Wilson dies. I went to their website and confirmed. They actually offer a bunch more calibers than Sinclair lists, but I also noticed prices directly from Wilson are higher. Do you know a place that carry these dies at a lower price? I take it you don't have to bump very often? You think FL sizing of this caliber would help accuracy and/or brass life?

 

[NorCalMikie]

Otter:
All my chambers are short so I can jam my bullets into the lands. That's why I go custom chamber.
If the guys are having good luck with standard chambers, I see no reason to change. They shoot critters way more than I ever will. I'am a bug hole bench shooter and I love accuracy. ;D
And, A BIG Savage fan.
My thinking is, it's cheaper to swap barrels on a Savage action than pop for another rifle with another caliber. BUT, I've never heard anybody say they "had too many rifles". ;D
Something about waiting a "year+" to get another rifle just isn't something I would like doing.
Pick up another caliber barrel, spin it on and go shooting.
I still would prefer a custom "short throat" chamber, Mike.

 

[bouddha]

"I take it you don't have to bump very often? You think FL sizing of this caliber would help accuracy and/or brass life? "

Shooting Contenders means more bumping than with bolt guns (usually), but this round isn't a lot of trouble once properly set up. And I've never reloaded for a round that was more accurate being full sized rather than necked. Until it's hard to chamber, I always neck size. I will say that I'm one guy who likes all the steps after the trigger falls, almost as much as being in the field.

I don't know any place cheaper than Sinclair or Midway for Wilson dies, btw.

 

[th82457]

CZ does not factory chamber the .20 VT. I had a 527 in .221 Fireball re-barreled with a Douglas barrel to .20 VT. Not as fancy as a Cooper, but a nice light repeater that is also very accurate for 300 yd. prairie dog shooting. Even with the re-barrel, costs much less than a Cooper repeater and less wait time. Best bet is buy what you think works best for your intended use. I have owned many brands and calibers, and still do. I just think for me - the best bang for the buck is the CZ for a small varmint cartridge gun. Another very nice gun would be an older Sako Vixen, re-barreled to the .20 VT. These are very nice lightweight walking guns. Good Luck on whatever you chose - not sure you can go wrong with this cartridge.

Terry

 

[NorCalMikie]

Shoulder bump and neck size. I use Forster Precision Bushing Bump Dies. Full length or body size as the bolt starts getting hard to open and close. 25+ reloads on Lapua brass and still going strong. The less you work the brass, the longer it lasts.
Short throat chambers lets you jam into the lands and as the throat gets longer, you can increase the round OAL and still reach the lands. And it'll get longer before you know it. Nothing worse than a long throat with the bullets are just barely in the neck and you can't reach the lands.
Good idea to have your chamber cut to match a dummy round OR, call PT&G, tell them what bullet you plan to shoot and where you want the lands. They already know where to cut it. 8) Again, JMHO, Mike.

 

[tjtjwdad]

Otter,

Would you like for the 20VT to be a single shot or a repeater?

AFAIK, Cooper is the only outfit making a 20VT and it is a single shot. Maybe they've started making it as a repeater too but the last time I checked [and its been a while] they didn't.

If you want a repeater, the only two that I'm aware of in Fireball cartridges are the CZ527 in 221 Fireball and the [discontinued] Remington 700 in both the 17 & 221 Fireball. If you want a single shot then it doesn't matter (IMO).

CZ527:
I have a CZ527 American in 204 Ruger, and it is a great little carry gun but it does have some differences that one shoud be aware of. One is the set trigger. It's a nice set up but when used the trigger is pushed FWD and if you have small hands it may seem less than ideal. The second is the safety is backwards from US rifles that I have found. Third, IMO the action isn't as smooth. These are all just little things that most can accomodate and I have no plans on unloading my CZ in 204. I like it a lot and it is extremely accurate.

Remington 700:
When I did my custom 20VT I chose a Model 700 in 17 Fireball because I wanted a repeater. To ensure function (feeding & ejecting) you need a Fireball action. They differ from the STD short action recievers in the feed ramp area. The bolt head is also slightly different. Yes, it is a .223 bolt head size but the elector and extractor have been skewed to a different position for ejection operation. Because of these differences I just never considered a Savage, Tika, Seiko or what have you. I've read where some have made 20VT with STS M700 SA with .223 bolts and have not reported any issues. Several have reported some feeding and some ejection problems. The other positive side is the woods are full of Remington 700 upgrade parts.

If it is going to be a custom gun, you can always have your gunsmith set it up as a switch barrel rig. I have mine set up this way as well as a 40X in 6MM Remington/308 Winchester.

HTH,

 

[Bodei]

My Cooper will nail "minute of sage rat" out to 200+ yards with no holdover consistently. I can get a 32 grain to touch the lands but there is no need, even on a bad day I never get bigger than 1/2 inch groups at 100yds. I found a Cooper online within 3 weeks of looking at had it shipped the next day. Best sage rat gun you will ever have.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Since this thread keeps rolling, I'll put in my $0.02 worth. I have enjoyed playing/working with rifles in this general cartridge size for many years. I think the absolute best rifle I have ever found for these cartridges, including three 20VT's, is the Dakota Predator. The downsides of that rifle are that you have to buy the complete rifle (actions are not sold alone, but I keep hoping) & they are rather expensive, but you might find one used at a pretty good price, relatively speaking. IMO, the next best rifle/action for this family of cartridges is the SAKO small action. These have been around for a long time & are well proven, and pretty reasonable usually. Then the CZ527, as mentioned by another poster , is a fine little mini-mauser action that can be had very reasonably, as can the Remington 799 or a Charles Daly model. All this being said, your Savage will do quite well, too, with the advantage of user changeable barrels. So it really comes down to how anal you want to be about your choice. I'm pretty anal about most of my shooting stuff, so when I got into the Dakota Predators, I went with them completely for this family of cartridges, which are the bulk of my shooting anymore. Hope this helps a little. Joe

 

[L.Sherm]

If you want a 20VT on a CZ527 action you could buy a 204 and set it back to a 20VT. I love the little 527, sweet little action and a great trigger. Just my 2 cents

 

[th82457]

That is an option on a 527, but you should get a .221 magazine to improve the feed into the chamber as it will be the correct internal length for the .221, .20VT case.

 

[Three44s]

My CZ American in .223 is the BOMB!!

That said, I like my Savages and Remies as well.

For me, my Savages are test vehicles for what my next cartridge fettish will be ....... and the CZ's and Remies will end up with the winners!

That's not to say I don't have any "destination" cartridges in my Savages ... but if you want a purpose built rifle in a Savage ........ the last thing you want to do is to grow a "wild hair" for another cartridge and yank that great shooter apart and then regret it .........

Better have more Savages then .........

(It never ends .......... at least in the short run!!)

Three 44s