20 VARTARG AI

[Terry]

Does anyone have a 20 VARTARG AI?

Tell us about it.

 

[ab_bentley]

Not to rain on the picinic, but there's no use. With an LC reformed case I shoot a 34gr Dogtown bullet @ 4100fps. Beat that with an AI version. Adam

 

[Terry]

Not to rain on the picinic, but there's no use. With an LC reformed case I shoot a 34gr Dogtown bullet @ 4100fps. Beat that with an AI version. Adam

That is as fast or faster that a .204 Ruger or 20 Practical.
What is the load?
How long does the brass last?

 

[ab_bentley]

Terry @ 4100fps I haven't worn a case out yet. I make cases from LC 5.56 brass, my powder charge is 21gr of AA2200 with a CCI450 primer. I can push a 40gr bullet 3750fps with no case loss (and from a 22" barrel) even after 9 firings. Per 100 cases it will take me 1000 steps to make a 20VT from a LC case but the result is an almost infinite case life.

I have pushed the cases much faster, to 4200fps but the life is diminished to 3-4 firings. I am not the only one who has reached this speed and accuracy.

This photo represents the consumed case volume with H4198 and a 40gr bullet, I can't fit enough powder in the case to do any damage.

This is the process in which a LC cases is reformed into a 20VT.

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9938

Adam

 

[Terry]

Wow!

Thanks for sharing.

Why not fireball brass?

 

[ab_bentley]

Remington 221FB brass is crap to say the least. It'll get the job done and it's pretty accurate to boot, but I refuse to pay 50$ for brass that has very shallow primer pockets, poor annealing, very inconcistant neck thickness, and soft bases. What really drove me down this path was a bag of Fireball brass about two years ago. I was shooting H4198, 18gr of it. Which isn't a max load in my rifle. Well I started ripping rims off of the cases that were now stuck in my chamber. I wasn't even getting 3750fps with a 32gr VMax. Well I was angry, so I did something about it. After testing brands like Winchester, Lapua, and a few other MILSPEC cases, I found LC was superior to all brands in all ways. Price at the time was 11.90$ per 100 and weight never varied more than 3gr at the max, most fell into a 1.5gr group. The primer pockets were all uniform @ .019", where .020" was what they cleaned up to. The annealing was better than anything I had seen prior to Lapua and the brass composition was also perfect for forming, with a high estimation case loss of .03% over 14,000 reformed cases. Lapua had a cases loss of 5% or more. Not to mention the strength of the cases, there is about a 1gr gain in case capacity with LC brass aswell. The strength of these cases is unreal, I mean 4100fps with a 34gr bullet with 21gr of powder driving is unreal, not to mention I haven't worn a case out yet ( that being said, with proper annealing). This brass with some work is the best out there and others will vouch for that too.

All of this combined is why I don't reccomend Remington 221FB brass for long term use. Adam

 

[Terry]

Adam

Thanks!

I had hoped to learn from this post, thanks to you I did.

Terry

 

[SmokinJoe]

Terry, what Adam says is good info. I am using his brass & AA2200 & getting similar results. If you try it, work up the loads, as with any other handloads. I have settled on the AA2200 @ 20.5 & 40 grain bullets, which gives me 3700 or so with very resonable pressure & good accuracy. Ballistacally way superior to the 32 grain bullets.

 

[DogBuster]

I'll have to add the 20 VT is as good as it gets..mine will push a 40 moly V max at 3550 with a charge of 19/H322...wanna go faster ? Get out the 20 Practical at 3900 with 40 moly V max....even faster..? then the new 20 BR comes out with 9 twist 28" Pac Nor on Savage Target action...Adam builds some great looking VT brass I may add....wants to make you toss all the Rem FB brass in the recycle bin..

 

[ddkearney]

Adam,
Looking forward to receiving the 20VT LC brass from you soon! To followup, how often do you anneal? Do you have a favorite annealing method?
Thanks,
Don

 

[ab_bentley]

I anneal every 3rd firing. I use a drill with 3/8" socket drive at moderate RPM. It takes 3 seconds at a MAX flame to reach the annealed state.

Don, your brass is going in the mail today, infact I will be printing off the shipping lables after typing this.

Adam

 

[boltman223]

Adam
How about throat erosion? I know it's a small amount of powder, but I would assume there is quite an increase in pressure to achieve those velocities and therefore the throat eroding faster.

 

[ab_bentley]

THose targets above are from a barrel with over 2,000rds down it. Also the 34gr Dogtowns love to be seated way off the lands, mine are seated .070" off the lands. Adam

 

[boltman223]

THose targets above are from a barrel with over 2,000rds down it. Also the 34gr Dogtowns love to be seated way off the lands, mine are seated .070" off the lands. Adam

2000 rounds is pretty good. I have question too, have you had to seat your bullets out farther to maintain the .070 distance.also do you think that barrel life is decreased a significant amount, say a thousands rounds with your loads compared to a "normal" load, say somewhere between 17 & 18 gr of 4198?

 

[ab_bentley]

I haven't chased the lands, that .070" off the lands may be farther now. I haven't touched the bullets OAL in the last few hundred rounds. I just load to the same OAL and shoot.

As to the decreased barrel life compared to the "normal" H4198 load, I don't think so then again I have been wrong. After talking to a few members and discussing this issue I came to the conclusion that it probably does decrease the life, but more than likely not enough to really be concerned about. I am running a full case of powder which can effect powders and cause them to burn slower than they really are while maintaining the same peak pressure just along a larger curve. I may be off on that, but I really think that AA2200 is effected this way, if it wasn't I wouldn't be able to shoot 21gr of it across the range of bullets, from 32gr to 40gr bullets I can shoot 21gr of AA2200.

So point blank, I am sure there is a bit more erosion but not enough to really care about, after all when have you ever heard about a shot out 20VT. Adam

 

[Rick in Oregon]

So point blank, I am sure there is a bit more erosion but not enough to really care about, after all when have you ever heard about a shot out 20VT. Adam

Adam, right you are buddy! My Cooper 20VT just achieved the 3,000 round mark, and it still puts 'em into one hole....right around .250" usually. My 204's are starting to get cobwebs in their barrels.

Gettin' excited about trying your brass in my rifle....should be here in a day or so. Thanks again Adam, I promise to put it to good use.....the rock chucks may not approve though.

 

[CZ550]

What kind of results would you expect with a 9 twist and 55gr bergers ?

 

[ab_bentley]

What kind of results would you expect with a 9 twist and 55gr bergers ?

I wouldn't. The 55gr would consume too much powder space and I don't know how the pressure would react, it's a 28% increase in weight. 40's and below is where I fully believe this case is useful. Adam