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20 VarTarg advise

sstkmkrr

Gold $$ Contributor
Ok! I'me sure that there are quite a few 20 VarTarg shooters ot there. So I wish to build one up or purchase one allready done.

Here's what I have allready: Redding .221 FB Comp set of dies. 1000 Pc's of .221 FB Rem'g brass never shot. YET!

What other dies would one need, and what manufacture would you suggest I should buy!

I have purchased 1,250 pc's of 32 gr A-Max bullets.

What Barrel twist for above, and what length would you buy if you had to do over again. Alott requested I know.

I appreciate you time an knowledge shared. This is what makes this the best site!

Thanks!

Steven Murphy
 
I load for three 204s and a G2 contender in 20 Ackley Bee,all with a vickerman bullet seater.I do use redding S type bushing dies, and body dies,but like the "window" seater die,for the small bullets in 20 cal.Works well on the 6mm also.
 
I'm shooting a Cooper 20 VarTarg VT on a Model 38 action. Barrel is a 12 twist 24", and the rifle likes all the 32gr poly-tip offerings from the usual suspects, but is wicked accurate with the 32gr SBK.

The Nosler 32gr BT also works very well....some chucks here would disagree though:

DSC_0023.jpg


As far as dies go, I'm using a full set (3-die set) of Redding Type S Bushing dies (Body-Form/Neck/Comp Seater), and have found that the .226" bushing is perfect for reformed R-P 221FB brass, as the usual spec for chamber neck I.D. is .232", or same as the 204 Ruger. My loaded rounds mic .228" at the neck.

I'm also neck turning for a 50% neck cleanup just for concentricity after forming but prior to annealing. The load that works in my rifle is 18.5gr RL-10X with the bullet .005" off the lands. My die set includes a No.1 Form Die, but others just run the brass through the VT F/L die......I don't F/L this caliber, only neck size and bump the shoulder when needed (seldom). Velocity for my field load runs right at 3,700 fps, but the little caliber can be pushed faster if wanted....I'm after accuracy first, speed second.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd not change a thing, but I would have got a 20VT alot sooner if I knew how well the caliber works and how efficient it is compared to all the commercial offerings. They all tend to shoot well too. Here's a typical target....note how I stopped at three shots? ;)

DSC_0033.jpg


Great little caliber, you'll love it in the field. Good luck with the project.
 
Get a Redding 20vt body die, and you are good to go with the dies in hand.
Pick up some bushings, .226 .227 .228. One of the latter two should work if you are not turning the neck. If you plan on shooting 40gr bullets you might want a twist of 11, or faster if you go heavier.

Your 221 comp seater will work as is, but you can get parts from redding for the same internals as a vartarg if you feel you have to have them.
 
sstkmkrr said:
Here's what I have allready: Redding .221 FB Comp set of dies. 1000 Pc's of .221 FB Rem'g brass never shot. YET!


Please understand that you can't reload fireformed brass with the 221FB dies, even type S. I would invest in a set of 20VT Redding Type S comp dies, these are top notch. If you have the patience get a custom Hornady Match die, they are the very best.

H4198 is going to be great in the 221FB cases'. If you get randy and form your own from 222/223 look into AA2200, even now you may want to look into it. Ramshot Exterminator is about the H4198 burn rate but in ball form, awesome. 3700fps is a good working load but long shots aren't out of the question, I form my own brass from 223 LC cases and a few months ago I shot a Coyote @ 500yds with the 32gr VMax @ 4100fps, stone dead. I think you (as everyone has) will enjoy this case emensly. Adam
 
.....and when you load the powder, be careful to measure each load to the same weight due to the small case size. You should also purchase Todd Kindler's guide to the .20 calibers for more info. Call Todd on the phone (I don't have his number) to order the book; while you are at it, ask him the questions you asked here.

I like the Hornady 32 Grain VMax bullets, but the guys at Cooper suggested that the Berger VLDs work well also. H4198 seems to work well with both the .222 and the VT. I don't get quite the accuracy that Rick gets, but then again, I don't neck-turn, anneal or use bushings. I just neck down with the Redding VT die and reload the prepared unweighed cases, add primers, powder, bullets and go out and shoot squirrels. The rifle has the potential for great accuracy, but I am not a paper-puncher, so I don't go the extra mile for super-accuracy; the squirrels still get blown up---literally. Even so, the rifle is forgiving and fun to shoot.

Also, I like to walk fields, shooting from a portable rest, and I like to keep the weight down for things I need to take. The VT cartridges are small and light and it is not difficult to pack them along.

Thanks to my wife's sharp eyes, I shot a huge Badger with my .222 a few days ago while ground squirrel shooting because I didn't have my VT with me at the time. I wish I had had it to try it out on larger animals than ground squirrels. I would like to see how the 32-grainers perform on Coyotes, but haven't had a chance....yet.
 
I'm having great luck with a 27", 12tw Douglas shooting Vmax 40's pushed by 18.5gr/RL10 & Vmax 32gr's pushed by 18.5gr/H4198. The 32's will group just slightly tighter but the wind will blow them around more out around 300yds. I can consistently produce sub 0.250 with either load using necked down Rem 221 FB brass.

RJ
 
Please understand that you can't reload fireformed brass with the 221FB dies, even type S.

Hmmm, I never got that notice. Could you please explain why I can't reload fireformed brass with the 221FB dies, even type S for my 20vt?

I only neck size and bump shoulders when needed, and have been using my 221 type S dies for 3 1/2 years, with some brass being reloaded more than a ten times with no problems. I did replace the decap stem and button with a 17cal, as I don't want the button expansion, and bump shoulders with the vt body die. I have a couples sets of Hornady 20vt dies, but do not like how much they work the necks.

Three years ago, I started rolling vartargs out of lc cases, and still use 221 dies on them too. I have comp dies (different calibers), and other than the micrometer head and sliding sleeve, they work the same as the type S dies as far as I can tell. That is what I based my suggestion on.

Should I rethink my procedure now that I know it can't be done?
Do not know how fast my 35 and 40gr Bergers or 40gr v-maxes are churning, but do know that I can shoot one hole one shot groups all week long :) Even manage to splat a vermin at more than several paces every so often. Fun round!
 
232 said:
Please understand that you can't reload fireformed brass with the 221FB dies, even type S.

Hmmm, I never got that notice. Could you please explain why I can't reload fireformed brass with the 221FB dies, even type S for my 20vt?

Hey whatever works for you. After the last 5 or 6 thousand rounds maybe I don't know any better.

The real answer is the shoulder on the 221FB case is 23*, this causes the neck shoulder junction to be different from the 20VT. When you FL with the 221FB FL die you ruin the fire forming. I guess you could get away with the neck die but not the FL die.

But hey what do I know. Adam
 
:) Thanks guys for all the great information. I knew that I could count on you guys! Hey Rick, that's one hell'uva nice looking rifle that you have there. Looks like she shoots pertty striaght to.

Thanks once again!

Steve Murphy
 
Here is a reply from Kory Hamzeh, the author of the article in 6mmBR about .20 calibers. I had no idea in March, 2007 whether or not I should go with a .17, or stick to my original plans to purchase a .20. Here are Kory's thoughts on powder and bullet choices:

"Hi Barry,

Sorry for the late reply -- been very busy with work.

Here are my thoughts (and let me know if I need to expand on them as I'm rushing off to another meeting):

1. I would start with 17 grains of H498 and work it up slowly. I think max load is around 19.3 or so. Don't increase the charge by more than .3 grains at a time.
2. I don't think primer matter too much. I use the same CCI primer that you do and I've had great luck.
3. May people have reported problems with the Sierra 32 grain pills. It very strange, the Sierra 32 gr seems to be problematic, but the 40 grain is fine (actually I think it is 39 grain). However, the HDY 32 grain is really good, but their 40 grain seems to be problematic. If you end up getting large group or keyholes, buy a box of the HDY 32 gr v-max and give it a try. If I were you, I would just start with the HDY, unless you've already bought the Sierras.

That's really all I can think of. The 20VT is one of the easiest sub-calibers to load. It doesn't seem to be to finicky about brass quality and lot to lot variation of the powder. Almost everyone I know uses H4198 with 32 grain pills. It just seems to work really well. Another good power is H335, but I must warn you it is temp sensitive and very dirty. Unless you've having problems with H4198, I would not use anything else.

I assume you have seen this guide I wrote?

http://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

There is a lot of into on the 20VT."

Regards,
Kory
 
sstkmkrr said:
Hey Rick, that's one hell'uva nice looking rifle that you have there. Looks like she shoots pertty striaght to.
Steve Murphy

Steve: Thanks bud....had her out for four days last week shooting ground squirrels.....went 200 rounds without cleaning, no loss of field accuracy, as squirrels still launched upwards at ranges that stretched 400 yards; a very good time with the little rig and the RL-7/32gr Nosler BT load at 3,700 fps (squirrels really hate it).

The accuracy of this little round, plus the efficiency still amazes me. Here's a shot of "Scooter" as she's affectionately called, on the bench at teardown at the end of a grand day in the field:

DSC_0078.jpg


Good luck with yours! :)
 
"Squirrels really hate it." ;D That's an understatement, Rick. They "bust a gut" every time they run into one of those Noslers or V-maxes. BTW, your rifle looks like an exact copy of mine, even down to what appears to be a 6.5 x 20 Leupold Vari-X III scope.

BTW, I like the look of the rotating portable rest. What brand is it, and the approximate cost? Is it made of aluminum for easier transport?

Barry
 
Every time that I think about a 20, I remind myself that I have a dandy sporter weight .222 that has as short throat, and just loves 40 grain bullets. I have tried Noslers and Hornadys, both with good success and accuracy.

In the past, bullets that were lighter than 50 grains, in .22 caliber, suffered the ills that come from poor BCs, but with the advent of plastic tipped bullets this is not the case. The 40s have about the same BCs as the 50 and 52 grain HPs that we used to shoot, and are going a couple of hundred FPS faster. Remind me, what is the advantage of a VarTarg over my 40 grain .222 loads? I think that the difference is inconsequential. Just playing devil's advocate here. I have a friend that loves his VarTarg and .17 Ackley Hornet. It is just that what I have works so well, and is so much easier.
 
I use both the .222 and the .20VT. They are both good calibers. I think my .222 might have the edge on accuracy, but I don't get in the rut of constantly trying to find the "best" load for either rifle. I use neither for BR accuracy and don't compete. The .20 does about the same thing to squirrels as does the .222. There is just a bit less recoil with the .20, but recoil was never a factor with the .222, .223 or my .22-250. Noise? Heck, I can't tell the difference between any of them.

I probably favor the .222 over the VT merely because the .222 is a Remington 40X bench rest gun that came from the factory. It has no modifications and, although it is a few pounds heavier than the Cooper, I feel that the quality is better. The .22-250 is built on a 40X receiver, McMillan stock and Hart barrel by Darrell Holland. I like this rifle also, but it is a bit much for the tiny ground squirrels due to barrel's heat buildup. Neither the .222 or .20VT have a barrel heating problem. I will keep these rifles until I hit the "great beyond."

The .222 might have a slight edge over the .20VT in range and wind-bucking ability, but who knows. I use both rifles when shooting ground squirrels, and would take the .20VT out for coyotes merely because the barrel diameter is less, making the rifle lighter than the .222 or the .22-250. Both rifles are good for mid-ranges (200-250 yards) without having to worry too much about low-to-moderate wind problems; but, then, wind is less of a concern when hunting larger animals than squirrels or PDs.

So, it all depends on what one "hunts" (squirrels aren't really something one hunts ; they just pop up out of the ground, and all you are playing is "whack-a-mole"). If one knows the rifles' limitations, it helps.
 
I've had lots of reservations about going to the 20s but I couldn't pass up a deal on a .204 Ruger chambered pistol barrel.
Dealing with those "little bittie bullets" should prove real interesting. ;)
Next step is a 20 VT. (or 20 Fireball) Got lots of .221 brass to work with. I'am after seeing hits through the scope with the least amount of recoil. Rifle is one thing but a pistol should really tell the truth. Range/trigger time should show me for sure.
 

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