20 Tactical w/ Berger 35s...What's your favorite powder ?

[dolek]

I have spent some time with my rifle and I have decided to shoot Berger's 35 grain bullets .Gre-Tan 700 w/ 13 twist Pac-nor barrel .I have had success with H4895 and Ramshot X-Terminator , both work well with light loads .I was wondering what powder has shined for you with the Bergers ? I am happy with these two powders but want to make sure I am not missing something that really excels with 35 grain Bergers. Thanks for any input.

Primers? I have used CCI 400 and 450s ,open to suggestions there too.

 

[lpreddick]

Real 10x was great in my 20 Tac with 35 Bergers

 

[Ledd Slinger]

H4895 is about the perfect burn rate for that bullet in the 20 TAC. IMR4895 works very good too, but is more temp sensitive.

Burn rate may be a little slow, but I think the new IMR Enduron 4166 would be worth a try.

Primers: I only use standard Federal 205 in my varmint rifles. I also have 205M Gold Medal Match primers that I use in target rifles, but have never seen much of a difference between the two for accuracy or speed. Both seem to work equally well, but the standard 205 is a little cheaper and easier to find so thats what I mainly use. Ive never had the best luck with CCI primers in anything. I test CCI against Federal all the time when developing loads (also test Remington 6-1/2 & 7-1/2). CCI shoots good, but I always seem to find a little more accuracy in my loads with Federal primers over everything else. Just my experience.

 

[bbassi]

20P here, but my 2 main loads with the 35gr Bergers are 24 gr of H332 and a WSR, or 26gr of H4895 over a WSR. Both will give me dime size 5 shot groups out of a 18", 11 twist X-caliber AR barrel. I don't remember the velocity but I want to say it's close to 3600. BTW those Bergers are a coyote killing SOB with no pelt damage.

 

[dolek]

H4895 is about the perfect burn rate for that bullet in the 20 TAC. IMR4895 works very good too, but is more temp sensitive.

Burn rate may be a little slow, but I think the new IMR Enduron 4166 would be worth a try.

Primers: I only use standard Federal 205 in my varmint rifles. I also have 205M Gold Medal Match primers that I use in target rifles, but have never seen much of a difference between the two for accuracy or speed. Both seem to work equally well, but the standard 205 is a little cheaper and easier to find so thats what I mainly use. Ive never had the best luck with CCI primers in anything. I test CCI against Federal all the time when developing loads (also test Remington 6-1/2 & 7-1/2). CCI shoots good, but I always seem to find a little more accuracy in my loads with Federal primers over everything else. Just my experience.

I have had great luck with H4895 in the 20 Tac and my .223s,not sure why I want to try a new powder,I will take a look at the Enduron .

Interesting info on what you have found on primers,CCI are about all I can find in shops within 100 miles of me .I will surely be trying something else .

Thanks for your findings.

 

[dolek]

20P here, but my 2 main loads with the 35gr Bergers are 24 gr of H332 and a WSR, or 26gr of H4895 over a WSR. Both will give me dime size 5 shot groups out of a 18", 11 twist X-caliber AR barrel. I don't remember the velocity but I want to say it's close to 3600. BTW those Bergers are a coyote killing SOB with no pelt damage.

Thanks for the info,I am shooting paper with this mostly but have thought of taking a few coyotes here in the winter.Good to know that on the pelt damage.

 

[GAnderson]

IMR 8208 and try it with the primers you have. Get some Rem 7 1/2 primers if you are not satisfied with what you have...I think you will be satisfied then.

Gene

 

[walker2713]

Since the thread has already been partially side tracked on primer issues rather than the original powder question, I'll throw my $.02 in....

I shoot a lot of bench rest 300 and 600 matches, and know what others use locally as well as nationally. Hands down the "go to" primer for 6BR, Dasher or BRX is the CCI450. It's not the only good primer, but it's what folks who win largely use. I've run side by side tests with it versus the Rem 7 1/2 Br and find the two are largely equivalent in accuracy and velocity.

I've also had good results with CCI's 400 and BR4 primers.

I don't mean to knock Federal primers....have used them a lot for LRP cartridges...just want to perhaps question the drift of the thread towards running down CCI small rifle primers.

YMMV.

 

[dolek]

IMR 8208 and try it with the primers you have. Get some Rem 7 1/2 primers if you are not satisfied with what you have...I think you will be satisfied then.

Gene

I have been reading a lot of good things about 8208 in the 20 Tac ,looks like I will have to try it out . I have no complaints with powders I have or the CCIs ,just itching to experiment with this rifle . I knew it was pretty special after about 3 shots...

 

[dolek]

Since the thread has already been partially side tracked on primer issues rather than the original powder question, I'll throw my $.02 in....

I shoot a lot of bench rest 300 and 600 matches, and know what others use locally as well as nationally. Hands down the "go to" primer for 6BR, Dasher or BRX is the CCI450. It's not the only good primer, but it's what folks who win largely use. I've run side by side tests with it versus the Rem 7 1/2 Br and find the two are largely equivalent in accuracy and velocity.

I've also had good results with CCI's 400 and BR4 primers.

I don't mean to knock Federal primers....have used them a lot for LRP cartridges...just want to perhaps question the drift of the thread towards running down CCI small rifle primers.

YMMV.

No worries on the primers,had nothing but good experiences with CCI primers . Just wondering if anyone has had a great load with something else .I will always have CCIs in my inventory.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Since the thread has already been partially side tracked on primer issues rather than the original powder question, I'll throw my $.02 in....

Don't know why you think the thread is "side tracked"??? Daleboy also specifically asked about primers in his first post. Below are his exact words.

Primers? I have used CCI 400 and 450s ,open to suggestions there too.

And I'm not knocking CCI, it has just been my personal experience that over the years I have been able to tune more consistent accuracy out of Federal. Not saying that everyone else will have the same results. If CCI primers work better for someone else that's great. Follow the accuracy wherever it may lie.

 

[jepp2]

A powder you might consider trying is Accurate LT 32. I first tried it in a 20 Bobcat, and it is taking over my 20 calibers. A powder nearly equivalent in accuracy is N 133. Nothing else comes close to those two.

 

[GAnderson]

"walker2713 said: ↑
Since the thread has already been partially side tracked on primer issues rather than the original powder question, I'll throw my $.02 in...."

In my posted response, I suggested that he might get good results with his CCI primers and 8208 powder, but that if not, then try the Rem 7 1/2. My post was nothing more than "try what you have and if that doesn't work, try this". Not quite sure if one would think that this was a "poke" at CCI or derailing the thread...I hope not...and I hope these kind of "incidents" don't discourage daleboy from continuing to ask questions about his 20Tac.
In fact, I use 400's and 450's in about 90% of my rifles with various load combinations. I have sometimes found that the Rem 7 1/2 has squeaked out a little more accuracy in a given rifle/load combination especially in the smaller calibers such as the .17's and 20's. My response was for his 20 Tactical and not for Benchrest Cartridges.

daleboy, keep us posted...WITH PICS...on how the rifle is shooting with some of the other powder combinations.

 

[dolek]

No worries folks, I asked for opinions on powder/primer experiences and I am thankful for the replies so far . I have done some quick research on the powders mentioned w/ the 20 Tac , and will head to the shop tomorrow to see what they have . Pics to follow,the good and the bad. Thanks

 

[walker2713]

Don't know why you think the thread is "side tracked"??? Daleboy also specifically asked about primers in his first post. Below are his exact words.


And I'm not knocking CCI, it has just been my personal experience that over the years I have been able to tune more consistent accuracy out of Federal. Not saying that everyone else will have the same results. If CCI primers work better for someone else that's great. Follow the accuracy wherever it may lie.

I'll sign up for a remedial reading course tomorrow.

 

[pmg]

Daleboy, I’m using 8208 and a 7 1/2s in my 20tac with a 35 Berger. I’ve got plenty of primers but more of the 7 1/2s than anything else. Br4s are getting pricey these days. This is a Gretan chambered 788. Also this combo worked so well I didn’t try any other powder so I can’t help ya there. I’ve not had any bad results with that combo out of my 204s either.

 

[sundance]

When I had a Cooper in 20 T it seemed to like H322 best out of the few powders I tried in it with 32 gr and 35 gr bullets.

 

[hogpatrol]

Similar but not the same, in four 20Ps, VV133 and BR4s. Just curious, why a 13 twist? Most 20s are 12 to 10 twist. Also what kind of velocity with the 35s?

 

[dolek]

I bought the rifle used,previous owner said 13 twist was popular when the Gre-Tan 20s were first being built...no clue if that is true. I put 250 miles on the truck looking for 8208 with know luck .Just going to have my local shop order in a few to test.133 is on my list .

 

[GAnderson]

I bought the rifle used,previous owner said 13 twist was popular when the Gre-Tan 20s were first being built...no clue if that is true. I put 250 miles on the truck looking for 8208 with know luck .Just going to have my local shop order in a few to test.133 is on my list .

daleboy is correct about the 13 twist being common "back in the day". You have to remember that back then, there were no 39/40gr+ bullets...the 33gr Vmax was all that was out there, hence the 13 twist aftermarket barrels. Somewhere in this mix, Berger came out with a 37gr MEF(think it was 37gr...maybe 36gr)...that was about all that was out there "back in the day".


Gene