20 Practical 35 Berger

[MahtewsSB]

For those running the 35 grain Berger in a 20P, what loads are you using? I have finally got my AR straightened out and cycling properly, however due to availability I am switching from the 40 grain Berger to the 35 grain variant. I have seen only a handful of info on the 35s in a 20P, at least what I have stumbled across in my searches. I'm running CCI 450 primers and benchmark currently but have no problem trying another powder. I see lots of talk about how great the 20P shoots, but I've yet to be impressed. After about 175 rounds, the best I've seen is probably just a hair under 1 moa. Would really like to see half moa out of an AR and I would be happy, not expecting 0.3 or less like my bolt guns.

So, what loads are y'all using? What seating depth seems to be good in an AR?

 

[hogpatrol]

You might try a switch to regular primers to see if Benchmark will work. I use VV133 and BR4s with all weights in two bolt actions and an AR in that cartridge. Here's some info on 20P loads:

20 Practical

Check out http://6mmar.com!

www.6mmar.com

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[MahtewsSB]

Now that I think about it, I may be running BR4 primers. I will double check my notes.

You might try a switch to regular primers to see if Benchmark will work. I use VV133 and BR4s with all weights in two bolt actions and an AR in that cartridge. Here's some info on 20P loads:

20 Practical

Check out http://6mmar.com!

www.6mmar.com

You are being redirected...

 

[jepp2]

Would really like to see half moa out of an AR and I would be happy

They can exceed that in some cases. I have good results using LT 32 with the 35 Bergers in my 20P.

 

[pdhntr]

For those running the 35 grain Berger in a 20P, what loads are you using? I have finally got my AR straightened out and cycling properly, however due to availability I am switching from the 40 grain Berger to the 35 grain variant. I have seen only a handful of info on the 35s in a 20P, at least what I have stumbled across in my searches. I'm running CCI 450 primers and benchmark currently but have no problem trying another powder. I see lots of talk about how great the 20P shoots, but I've yet to be impressed. After about 175 rounds, the best I've seen is probably just a hair under 1 moa. Would really like to see half moa out of an AR and I would be happy, not expecting 0.3 or less like my bolt guns.

So, what loads are y'all using? What seating depth seems to be good in an AR?

I am using Benchmark in mine, and 35 Bergers. My load is 25.8 using Remington BR-4 primers, and HSM brass. In testing, I went higher than that, but settled back to the above. I found in testing several powders, Benchmark gave me the best velocity and good accuracy. Do not duplicate this load without backing down and working up. The brass used can have a significant effect on final load.

Have you tried another primer with same load?

As far as seating depth, you need to figure that out on your own. Make up a dummy round and seat the bullet out and find out what your chamber tells you. If you can seat 10 off, then start there. But the mag length may not let you.

Also, practical AR's can be a little "rough" on loading from a mag when shooting. The farther the bullet is sticking out of the case, the more leverage the loading ramp has on it, and it can bend the bullet in the case. I have found a lot of neck tension helps to reduce this. Two ways to test: with a couple in the mag shoot one so it loads the next, remove it and roll it on a flat surface. OR, shoot a group by single loading without using the mag.

In testing, I single load all rounds without using the mag.

There is a whole world of things that can affect accuracy in an AR, IF the goal is to reduce your groups from 1 inch to .5 inch.

Jim

 

[B23]

I shoot those Berger 40 grainers in my 20-222 and they can sometimes be a fussy little bastard on seating depth. It wouldn't shock me to hear the Berger 35's end up shooting better for you.

 

[MahtewsSB]

I am using Benchmark in mine, and 35 Bergers. My load is 25.8 using Remington BR-4 primers, and HSM brass. In testing, I went higher than that, but settled back to the above. I found in testing several powders, Benchmark gave me the best velocity and good accuracy. Do not duplicate this load without backing down and working up. The brass used can have a significant effect on final load.

Have you tried another primer with same load?

As far as seating depth, you need to figure that out on your own. Make up a dummy round and seat the bullet out and find out what your chamber tells you. If you can seat 10 off, then start there. But the mag length may not let you.

Also, practical AR's can be a little "rough" on loading from a mag when shooting. The farther the bullet is sticking out of the case, the more leverage the loading ramp has on it, and it can bend the bullet in the case. I have found a lot of neck tension helps to reduce this. Two ways to test: with a couple in the mag shoot one so it loads the next, remove it and roll it on a flat surface. OR, shoot a group by single loading without using the mag.

In testing, I single load all rounds without using the mag.

There is a whole world of things that can affect accuracy in an AR, IF the goal is to reduce your groups from 1 inch to .5 inch.

Ji

I was planning to start with 25.0 of BM and go up from there, just helps to know what has worked for others to get an idea roughly where I can expect things to look good. Of course every gun is different.

I'll load 2 in the mag and shoot one then examine the second next time I'm out. May need to increase neck tension or crimp. New to the AR loading game. The longer this has gone on the more I think I should have just stuck to bolt guns lol

 

[MBuechle]

Don't give up on the AR. This was a seat depth sweep from mine. The bottom groups are the .20. As you can see they like .003 and .017 off the lands. COL to the lands is 1.820. 32 Vmax, 8208XBR. Lilja 11tw at 26". Easiest load work up I've ever done!

 

[hogpatrol]

I was planning to start with 25.0 of BM and go up from there, just helps to know what has worked for others to get an idea roughly where I can expect things to look good. Of course every gun is different.

I'll load 2 in the mag and shoot one then examine the second next time I'm out. May need to increase neck tension or crimp. New to the AR loading game. The longer this has gone on the more I think I should have just stuck to bolt guns lol

If you have an inertia bullet puller, try different neck tensions and see how much force it takes to dislodge the bullet. I run .001 neck tension and never crimp on my 20P AR. I jump .010 so no issues if I need to unload.

 

[MahtewsSB]

I'm thinking I need to send a spent case off to hornady to get a modified case made so I can get an accurate measurement to the lands. I had just started at mag length and went shorter, but I may have been in the lands on everything.

 

[MahtewsSB]

Don't give up on the AR. This was a seat depth sweep from mine. The bottom groups are the .20. As you can see they like .003 and .017 off the lands. COL to the lands is 1.820. 32 Vmax, 8208XBR. Lilja 11tw at 26". Easiest load work up I've ever done!View attachment 1236059

I have a little 8208XBR laying around but I was hoping to save what little I have left for my 22-250. What kind of velocity are you getting with it? Accuracy is clearly great

 

[MBuechle]

3840 ish. Really did not see where the top end was. This fell together so nicely I'm not going to screw it up. I chased velocity in .22-250 upper for my AR10 and ended up with a load that had little tolerance for heat or or the errant neck donut, don't need that. The 25gr. load I started with was one someone here had found to be accurate in their gun. I loaded an OCW series from 3% below that to 2% above in 1% increments and ended up within .2 gr. of 25.

 

[pdhntr]

I'm thinking I need to send a spent case off to hornady to get a modified case made so I can get an accurate measurement to the lands. I had just started at mag length and went shorter, but I may have been in the lands on everything.

It can be somewhat challenging at times, but finding the lands in an AR is something you can do with out the Hornady modified case.

Using a fired case that still chambers, slightly crimp the mouth to hold a bullet, that still lets it slide with some pressure. Carefully feed it into the chamber by hand, let the bolt down slowly, and bump the forward assist to seat the bolt. As you are pulling back on the charging handle to remove, push on the case with your finger, to overcome the pressure of the ejector so it doesn't scrape across the barrel extension and then go flying across the room.

It isn't fool proof by any means, but after a half dozen tries, I can usually get 3 readings that are the same. Often times the other three drop out the mag well and hit the floor, and I have to start all over.

Jim

 

[searcher]

The .17 and .20 caliber cartridges tend to cause rifles to be a bit more finicky than with, say a .223 or larger. Running in an A/R adds to this in my experience. There are a few powders that just seem to really excel with the Practical - and with that 35 Berger. I use Accurate LT-32 to get 1/4" MOA. Next best powder tried was 5.56 military surplus. Depending on availability of powder, I'd try H4198 and H322. These all get small groups. You really do need to try several, as I have gotten 1 1/2" groups with some powders. The LT32 worked in three different .20 Practical A/R's for me. It is like the magic stuff, though not the highest velocity - which is fine with me as I turn my necks and like my brass to last at least 7 or 8 firings. I use 26" Hart heavy barrel, 2 lb trigger and I run my 40X or 50X max scopes usually around 30X. I also have a fore-end sled attached to shoot my A/R off of my toggle rest with a large Gator bag at the rear. Very stable. I also switch primers periodically between what I want to get rid of, mostly Tula .223 magnum, Remington 7 1/2 and Federal A/R Match primer. Switching the primers never caused any of my good loads to open up more than 1/8" on any of the rifles and a 2/10th grain tune is all that is necessary to get one primer substituted for another. Most SRP primers only vary about 30 fps in velocity from one extreme to the other. The point in saying this is I would not change your primer and think it will likely make a powder shoot better in your rifle. If you run a powder ladder in no more than 2/10th grain intervals and you get no good groups, no primer change will turn it around in my experience. I'd immediately switch to another powder for another ladder. Being primers being such a pain to find - I'd not worry about them - I'd search for whatever powder you might need. If you don't have any LT32, I'd ask around to see if you can get a handful to try. Good luck.

 

[204 AR]

I use a cleaning rod to accurately find max oal with any bullet. No special case or tool needed.

Take an old brush or jag and cut the threaded end with about 1/4" extra, off. Thread that into your cleaning rod to act as a plug so the bullet tip doesn't go into the female threads and give you a false reading. With the bolt seated in the upper, run the rod down the bore from the muzzle till it contacts the bolt. Tape the rod carefully at the muzzle. Now pull the rod back a few inches, remove the bolt from the upper, and shove your bullet into the chamber and lightly seat it up against the lands. A bore guide helps with this step a bunch. Now run the rod down till it contacts the bullet and measure from the muzzle to the tape. Easy.

I got a plastic stop with a plastic set screw to use instead of tape which is even easier.

Ok now on to the Practical. I had one, was kind of fickle but ended up using BM and H335 were the best powders with the 35. But I didn't have lt32 to try. I tested different bushings, with expander and without, and with gave me more consistent groups. Doing it again, I'd just want a simple fl size die if one is available. Or I'd stick with the good ol 204.

 

[searcher]

If you have an inertia bullet puller, try different neck tensions and see how much force it takes to dislodge the bullet. I run .001 neck tension and never crimp on my 20P AR. I jump .010 so no issues if I need to unload.

The ultimate test is taking ammo loaded at least a week prior - then allowing a round to be stripped off the mag by releasing the charging handle and letting 'er slam home. Then eject loaded round to re-measure length. Same length means no slippage. I've never gotten by with only .001" tension. Has always taken .002" to .003" for me. Necks taken down to create .001" tension do spring back a bit and what is left often won't stop the bullet from moving on inertia when the cartridge comes to a stop in the chamber. I don't crimp either. This slippage was such a problem for me on coated bullets - I just quit coating any bullets in my .20 Practical. Just couldn't completely stop the slippage on those skinny coated bullets/

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I run BM and 8208 in my 20p AR. I going to try BLC2 with the 32's and 35. Haven't run any 335 have a pound on the shelf. Tough to beat the 8208 up to the 40 gr bullets.

 

[bowfisher]

I run H322 and CCI450's in my 20 Tactical with the 35gr Bergers. My other AR in 20 Tac prefers the 30gr Bergers for some reason.