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20 Practical brass prep and source

I'd be inclined to take nakneker up on his Lake City brass offer. It is almost impossible to find Lake City out there that is not processed right now. Good deal. When I first started loading 20 p around 10-14 years ago, I could only get my hands on a large quantity of Remington once-fired commercial brass. It is noticeably softer than other brands - but still held up to 7 or 8 firings in my 20P A/R's, though I annealed after every 2 or 3 firings. You won't get but a few more firings with Lake City, but you will get a bit less trimming in between firings and the primer pockets hold up a bit better. I have read a fair number of bad reviews about Starline brass, but have no personal experience with it. I've read far more bad reviews about Remington - which worked out just fine for me.

That said, the 20P is very easy to load for. I use a Redding bushing die and it works great. Using any Military brass, you will likely want to first run it through a small-base die. While most Lake City brass doesn't require it, you will eventually get some pieces that cause problems otherwise, that were fired in oversized chambers. In one of my 20P's, I have to use a small-base die on every sizing due to the tight chamber which was chambered with a PTG reamer.

I first run once-fired Lake City through the small-base die, then size with the FL bushing die, using a .232" bushing. I then open necks up with an expander, skim turn the necks to 90%+ clean metal, then size with a .222" bushing, ready to load. I take about .001" off skim turning. Then I anneal. That is WAY more steps than necessary to get good brass with Lake City - this is just what I found to be a method for very uniform brass. Thereafter, I just size normally, using the .222" bushing. If not turning and using commercial brass like Starline, Remington, etc., I'd just go straight to a .223" bushing with either commercial brass, then anneal if you have that available to you - though not necessary. I'd pick up several bushings as not all brass is the same in thickness. For the range you described, you will find it hard to find a better cartridge that doesn't heat up the barrel and enable you to see the hits due to the low recoil. While most folks don't like to turn brass, it really makes a difference on the smaller diameter calibers, such as this one. The good thing is - you don't have to do it - but you can add that to your list of brass prep if and when you are looking for a bit more accuracy later on down the road. It makes a bigger difference than on .223-and-up sized cartridges in my experience. Be sure to try 32 and 40 V-Max and 39 Blitz King bullets, along with Accurate LT32 powder. Have yet to see a rig that won't shoot those reasonably well.
 
I just use redding 223 s die with correct 20 cal bushing. Run the brass through it load it up and shoot it. Brass will be good for your chamber run it through the die again bumping shoulder back about .002 and load it good to go.
 
I just use redding 223 s die with correct 20 cal bushing. Run the brass through it load it up and shoot it. Brass will be good for your chamber run it through the die again bumping shoulder back about .002 and load it good to go.
"correct 20 cal bushing" is the question mark at this point. Don't know what the loaded neck diameter will be until I run the first case through the die with a bushing. Won't be able to seat a bullet until I have the bushing. Thankfully, an AR buys me a little more wiggle room on neck tension, and bushings are cheap so if I'm not quite happy with it, it's not a huge deal to get another bushing.

Can someone refresh my memory; does an S die have an expander ball? I was thinking that it did, but that would negate the benefit of the bushing.

My biggest concern in this process is that reading through the more detailed posts that I've found, it looks like necking down to 20 cal can add some concentricity issues, and that's one thing I'd really like to avoid because I don't really want to invest $$ into gauges to start checking my concentricity. I'd rather spend that money on the tools needed to process the brass correctly and avoid the problem to begin with.
 
What I'll probably do is measure the neck on a piece of brass after running it through my .223 FL die, double it, add .204", and then subtract 0.006". That may or may not be too much neck tension for an AR, but it will give me a starting point. Only problem is that I don't have a mic that will measure the neck, but I think I can track one down to borrow for the first few cases.
 
I've annealed brass once using a torch and a bucket of water to anneal a couple hundred pieces of 7-08 brass several years ago. I'm contemplating purchasing an annealer, but it hasn't made it far enough up the priority list to start saving money and make space for it. For my first go around, I think I'm going to start with LC range brass (ie go the cheap route). If/when I get to the point that I'm going to buy new brass for it, I'll get an annealer first. I realize that almost doubles the cost of going the expensive route, but for me it's more of a quality issue. If I'm happy with the accuracy I get from going the cheap route, great. If not, then its $300 for an annealer, and $300 for new brass (and maybe $150 for a neck turning tool) to eliminate accuracy issues related to the brass.
 
+1 on @L.Sherm 's advice.

When we cold work cartridge brass like we do when we wildcat, the best results and longer brass life come from keeping those necks in the right hardness range. That said....

I completely understand that raising your family must take a priority. Teaching your daughter to stay alive as a new driver is much more important right now, than worrying about annealing brass.

When/if the time comes, send me your brass and I'll be happy to anneal it for you and send it back. That way, you can run a side-by-side test of annealed against non-annealed and see if it makes any difference to you.

I would rather you don't anneal at all, than do it poorly. You can get away with not annealing as long as the batch is very even in composition and hardness state. It is just that the hardness value will climb to the point where your prep process will need to chase that hardness level a little sooner than usual because we are starting with a major wildcatting step.
 
Thanks!!! My daughter is actually doing really well behind the wheel. She's a great kid. I've thought about an annealer for a while now, but I've been lazy. Same with a Redding bushing die. Our expenses these last few months have been out of the ordinary by a couple of orders of magnitude, but hopefully things will settle down and get back to normal now. I'm not in a huge rush for this. Even if I had everything, I probably wouldn't start loading for it until late May, so I have plenty of time to get all the pieces together. Its just a matter of priorities. While this is something I want (and if I weren't such a tight wad, I could go buy it today), there are other things that are just more important. Right now I'm trying to educate myself as best I can so that I buy the right pieces as the funds become available, and then follow the right process (one step at a time) as time becomes available.

If I'm going to anneal the brass, I could just as easily sort some range brass and find 500 pcs of LC brass with the same head stamp (I have access to a 30 gall drum of 223 range brass), anneal it, size it, and do a light skim on the neck to even things up. It would add time, but I have all winter and I need an excuse to spend time with my old friend who owns the range anyway. :)
 
I'd go with starline .223. about 2 years ago I bought 1000 pieces (10 bags) of Winchester from 2 different places with 2 different lot #s and I'd say about 70 percent of the flash holes looked egg shaped or double punched, and the primer pockets looked catered. The ones I did shoot that looks okay, shot fine. That being said I've used 300 pieces of starline 223 brass and I was extremely pleased. I've only got 3 reloads on them, but no issues at all.
 
"correct 20 cal bushing" is the question mark at this point. Don't know what the loaded neck diameter will be until I run the first case through the die with a bushing. Won't be able to seat a bullet until I have the bushing. Thankfully, an AR buys me a little more wiggle room on neck tension, and bushings are cheap so if I'm not quite happy with it, it's not a huge deal to get another bushing.

Can someone refresh my memory; does an S die have an expander ball? I was thinking that it did, but that would negate the benefit of the bushing.

My biggest concern in this process is that reading through the more detailed posts that I've found, it looks like necking down to 20 cal can add some concentricity issues, and that's one thing I'd really like to avoid because I don't really want to invest $$ into gauges to start checking my concentricity. I'd rather spend that money on the tools needed to process the brass correctly and avoid the problem to begin with.
Here’s what my 20 pract shoots prepping brass my way. I believe without going to check for sure the bushing is.227. It’s really not rocket science to neck brass down. 39 gr blitz kings
 

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One thing I might add when you get bushings just because there stamped a number doesn't mean that's what they are, I have pin guauges now to measure bushings and other things with.
 
I used to weight range brass(pretty much same weight same volume) now the only range brass I use is large volume of the same head stamp and run them through a SB die, outside chamfer and then come one pass through a FL Bushing die, trim and chamfer. New brass, Starline and Top Brass just get outside chamfered, one pass through the FL Bushing die , trimmed and chamfered in and out. Chamfering outside before sizing lets it pass through the sizing die in one pass.

I don't do colony varmints, just preds with the 20P. I have three different rifles, heavy varmint (40gr NBT), light carbine (32gr Varmagedon HP great pelt saver) and an AR (39gr Speer HP). I keep 100 rounds loaded for each.
 
When I had a 20P AR, I would buy fully processed LC brass, mixed years. I would put a gutted 223 FL die and a Redding S die in the progressive press. Quick way to processes a few hundred cases, and if you set up to prime as well it was even quicker when loading. I would buy brass 1000 pieces at a time for my service rile and take a couple hundred for the 20P.
 
I'd like to build a 20 Practical, and I'm starting to collect the parts. Main purpose is prairie dogs out to 400 yds or so. I was originally planning on doing a bolt gun, but I think I'm going to do an AR instead. Anyway, regarding the brass, my plan was to buy 1000 pcs of new brass, run it through 223 sizing die with no expanding ball, and then run it through an Redding S die with the appropriate bushing. Is that good procedure, or are there extra steps that I should take?

Also, is there a recommended source for the brass? Obviously Lapua is good, but that's too $$ for my wallet, especially if I'm feeding it through an AR. My options are Starline 223 brass, Starline 556 brass, Winchester 223 brass, or a big mix of LC once fired brass that I'd need to sort through to see if I could find 1000 pcs with the same head stamp (ugh, lapua is starting to sound affordable at that point). Winchester brass looks to be out of stock everywhere, but I'm not in a hurry so I can wait to find some. I've never used starline brass, but nobody seems to complain about it (like the do about Federal and Fiocci brass). Also not sure what the difference is between Starline's 223 and 556 brass so if someone can clue me in there, that would be great.

Thanks,
Mark
My .223 brass is all IMI. But..... I sold a very accurate early Rem .223 Varminter to the guy I shoot with. He uses nothing but range bras from the range near his house, and doesn't even sort it. I've seen 1/4" groups that he's shot with that stuff, and he only very rarely will miss a prairie dog.
 
Kind of seems like there's 2 schools of thought. One school (taken to a slight extreme on my part) is buy new brass, anneal it, size it in a 223 FL die with no guts, Chamfer the OD, size it through 2 bushings, then neck turn, anneal again, load and shoot. The other is to pick up random range brass, run it through a gutless FL die, chamfer the OD, then size the neck with a (.226-.229) bushing, load it with some 10x or N133 and go kill prairie dogs.

For my needs, and since I'm going to run this through an AR, I think I'm going to lean more towards the 2nd process at this point As time allots (or as accuracy demands), I'll migrate over to the first process. Since this is for the closer dogs and volumes of shooting, I'll see what the quick and easy path generates 1st.
 
Thanks, but IF I have to pay for range brass, our range charges the going rate for scrap brass (by the pound). I think the current cost is around $0.60/lb, but I may be looking at the wrong type of brass. Either way, for the amount I'm looking for, I can probably get it at no cost if I call ahead of time.
 
Just for conversation, I would watch for and separate out the "heavy" brass brands(IMI,Norma and probably a few other oddball head stamps) from other brass. Especially for prairie dog loads used in hot temps. Otherwise I have used Win,Rem,LC,PMC brass. I will try some Sig next time I run across a bag or two. I don't turn necks. I size with a .225 bushing, set the inside neck dia with a mandrel. Mandrel measures 0.201, I noticed occasionally a bullet moves a couple thousandth loading/unloading unfired round from my AR. So I had Lee make me a custom crimp die, accuracy is still very good but no more bullet slip with a light crimp.
 

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