1st Shot Shooting High

[TigerFan]

Guys, I apologize if this was already posted. I did search first.

I began reloading last year (which will be obvious as you read my post ). After seeing the results that each small move made, I was amazed. I do not shoot competitive. I enjoy shooting paper, but my guns are used for hunting.

I have an old Savage 110 in 308. I have made some mods to it - trigger, Boyds stock and bedding. Gun is much better now.

Like I said, I use my gun for hunting so I have some loads that will suffice. However, that doesn't mean I should settle. I have a current load that has the first shot shooting 4-5" high but then the next 4 are touching. I believe that the first shot was not as high when I was farther from the lands; however, the next 4 were not as tight either. Any idea what information I need to collect in order to get some help from you guys? Any lessons learned that you'd care to share?

Thanks

 

[ckaberna]

1st shot after cleaning? If you let barrel cool an hour or so between groups what happens then?

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Cold bore shot? Before I do any load testing I shoot three random shots to warm the barrel and make sure I'm zeroed.

 

[TigerFan]

Cold bore shot, yes. Rifle is zeroed at 100. I should have stated above that all of the data is collected at this distance as well.

 

[TigerFan]

1st shot after cleaning? If you let barrel cool an hour or so between groups what happens then?

Not necessarily after cleaning. Meaning, if I shoot today and do not clean the barrel, I will see the same results tomorrow. First shot will be equally high and the rest are what I'd like them to be.

CCI primers, BL-C2 powder, Nosler Accubond 165 gr bullets, Federal Brass

 

[JFrank]

Several scopes will shift poi after the first shot, not saying this is your particular issue just food for thought.
In my case a cold bore after cleaning shot will be a tad low or off center if I forget to run a light oil patch ( increased friction)
But never 5 inch. It could also be You”
J

 

[TigerFan]

Several scopes will shift poi after the first shot, not saying this is your particular issue just food for thought.
In my case a cold bore after cleaning shot will be a tad low or off center if I forget to run a light oil patch ( increased friction)
But never 5 inch. It could also be You”
J

Haha. I would not argue that it could be me. I actually would hope that was the case. Easier to fix. However, that is a good point. I'll let someone else shoot it next time. I am a little suspect being that it's always the same spot (not right, not left, etc).

Am I correct in stating that the pressure will be lower for the first shot due to the temperature being lower? Could that be the reason for the flier?

 

[JFrank]

Haha. I would not argue that it could be me. I actually would hope that was the case. Easier to fix. However, that is a good point. I'll let someone else shoot it next time. I am a little suspect being that it's always the same spot (not right, not left, etc).

Am I correct in stating that the pressure will be lower for the first shot due to the temperature being lower? Could that be the reason for the flier?

Not enough to make a 5 inch difference

 

[TigerFan]

Thanks guys. Hopefully I can learn enough to contribute to this forum too. I will check the bedding, let someone else shoot and experiment with primers.

 

[MihiT]

Load density? Distance to lands? MV? I agree that's a pretty large poi shift to be seeing at that range, and my first suspicion would be the nut on the trigger

 

[Bc'z]

Solvent/oil in chamber/bore causing pressure spike????

 

[TigerFan]

Load density? Distance to lands? MV? I agree that's a pretty large poi shift to be seeing at that range, and my first suspicion would be the nut on the trigger

Definitely haven't ruled that out.

 

[GrocMax]

Factory pencil-thin barrel?

 

[TigerFan]

Factory pencil-thin barrel?

Yep

 

[K22]

From what you said, you have cold fouled barrel (not clean barrel) flyers (approx 5") and the rifle has a thin barrel.

So that rules out cleaning issues right? I assume you checked all the screws, i.e. stock and scope for tightness right?

You said that the rifle is bedded - can you be more specific. Most rifle I have shoot better with the barrel free floated, even my Rem Model 7's with sporter weight barrels. But I have a Weatherby Vanguard with a sporter barrel and synthetic stock that has pressure points on the barrel and this rifle shots 1/2 moa groups, no flyers, with tailored reloads (223 Rem). So the free float rule is not absolute (I thought the free float rule was absolute until I encounter the Vanguard)

If everything else fails your rifle may benefit from bedding the barrel channel but I would only do this as a last resort. Another thing that puzzles me is the magnitude of the flyer - 5" is awful lot. Seems like something else mechanical is going on here.

Another option is try a stick powder such as IMR 4895 or IMR 4064, both excellent choices for the 308.

Another option is to try a different scope if you have one. I've only ever had one go bad in 50 years of shooting but it happens. Does the reticle go out of focus or cant one side? This could indicate a lens shift. Shine a flashlight through the objective lens which will show through to the eyepiece and check for any cracks in the lenses.

Try a string of shots (5) from a cold barrel and see if the first shot is consistent with the others.

 

[Richard Coody]

For a hunting rifle that first cold bore shot is the one that counts. Not many times in my life where i needed the second one.

Not uncommon for that first cold bore shot even with an uncleaned barrel to be off some but 5"?

Is the barrel free floated from the muzzle to the recoil lug? Both before any shot is fired and after it gets more consistent?

I would do a berger seating depth test. See if i can't find something more consistent. If not I would try a whole new load development procedure. Powder, bullet, powder charge and seating depth test.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

1st shot always high the next 4 almost touching group on the scope zero. If the 4 are a "round" group, no stringing, I doubt the load is an issue. Stock/action fit and screw tension first(free). 2nd Scope rings,base screws torque and placement(rail mounted rings must be torqued against the muzzle side of the grooves)free. Third if you don't(if you have a scope try it first,carefully mounting it) have a proven reliable scope,find a different scope to try.

 

[243winxb]

Run a wet patch of isopropyl alcohol down the bore. Then a clean dry one. Fire and see if it helps.

A Factory pencil-thin barrel may need 9 lbs up pressure at the forearm tip.

But 5" @100 yds is a lot.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

What is unusual is to find a rifle that shoots very near POA with a cold bore.
You might try cleaning, fire several shots, store the rifle, then try the single shot on paper.
Failing this, buy a replacement takeoff barrel cheap from this forum.
Heaver contour. If weight is a factor, cut back to 22" recrown.
*** Think about changing to a varmit caliber in 6MM. A 243 takes 308 case. A 25 06 uses 06 brass same head as 308 at least close enough for bolt function.
I know a person who has one shot kills on multiple deer out to 100 yds with a 25 grain hollow point. He pointed out advantage of low noise single shot kill. If you see odd light at night its not UFO its Ben running a light just outside the Pearly Gates.

 

[dcali]

I agree with the others - that sounds like a cold bore shot, but way larger than is typical. The worst I've ever had was about 2 MOA high on a cold bore, which would settle over three or four rounds. I've had several barrels that did not throw a shot at all (or at least not that I can measure).

Another possible cause is a borderline tight scope base or ring. When just barely loose (not enough to rattle), I've had a rifle shoot two distinct groups, with one high by about 5 MOA.

I'd also check to see if any of the stock is touching the barrel. If it is, fix it.

I'd double check, and carefully measure not just the first, but 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shots. If it's repeatable, it can be adjusted for, but I'd be thinking of a new barrel if I couldn't get rid of it.