Hello all I am slowly building a new rifle and I am trying to choose a scope. I have hunted and shot for years but have no experience with ffp scopes, what am I missing aND are they worth it.
1st or 2nd focal plane scope
- Thread starter smokestick
- Start date
For tactical matches FFP is an advantage, but for most target shooting and hunting SFP is the way to go.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
FFP scopes have graduated reticles, think of it as a ruler. You use it to measure things at distance. Then you do things with the measurements. SFP reticles can do the same thing, but only at one power setting, usually, but not always, the highest one.
If you are not shooting tactical matches you probably have no use for a FFP. FFP reticles are magnified with the target so they remain the same size relative to the target. This is the feature that allows you to use them to make measurements at all powers. Perceptually they get larger in your field of view when you increase magnification,
SFP do not, a SFP recitle doesnt magnify with the target. For fine shooting that means that the target becomes larger and allows for finer holds. This is why most target shooters use SFP scopes.
IMO (and experience), In practice with hunting scopes at ranges where you might use the graduations on the reticle for holdovers, you may find the target on lower power, but I crank the magnification up to max for the shot, so the reticle is properly subtending. I don't use them for my hunting rifles.
If you are not shooting tactical matches you probably have no use for a FFP. FFP reticles are magnified with the target so they remain the same size relative to the target. This is the feature that allows you to use them to make measurements at all powers. Perceptually they get larger in your field of view when you increase magnification,
SFP do not, a SFP recitle doesnt magnify with the target. For fine shooting that means that the target becomes larger and allows for finer holds. This is why most target shooters use SFP scopes.
IMO (and experience), In practice with hunting scopes at ranges where you might use the graduations on the reticle for holdovers, you may find the target on lower power, but I crank the magnification up to max for the shot, so the reticle is properly subtending. I don't use them for my hunting rifles.
Thanks for the information everyone that helps a lot
It boils down to your intended use. I have friends that own nothing but FFP scopes, but they only bang steel. Accordingly, I drag out my FFP scopes for when I shoot with them. I personally spend more time punching paper at known distances, so I own primarily SFP scopes.
Spike A
Gold $$ Contributor
i just went through this issue ... i was upgrading and wasnt sure if i needed ffp or if sfp would be ok or even better. i use this rifle for target and some hunting. I did end up going with FFP because even though the scope is 24x i generally only hunt on 14-16x and even though the scope dials perfect there isnt always time to dial, so i know that no matter what power i am on the marks will be true. Also when hunting at long distances you can hold for windage with out worrying about the magnification. I will admit that i was not so convinced at first, i just thought that i could easily just turn the power up and be good to go, but a good friend of mine suggest i go hunting with him. He pointed out to me that 24x was a little too much magnification for hunting, and when the coyote showed up, he never would have been able to keep an eye on it in the scope if it was on 24x, even at 400 yds. and on top of it there was no way he could of had time to adjust for it so he had to held over and being ffp he didnt have to worry about magnification. i know this isnt how all hunting is but its similar. Its just much easier knowing that no matter what the values are true in the scope. NOW the 2 biggest benefits of sfp that i think are that when target shooting the reticles tend to be a a little finer which make show up a little more when shooting long range. and the second is price, they def are cheaper. Everyone always said that once you go with a ffp you wont go back to sfp. I never thought it would hold true, after having it.. its completely true. And to to boot my best friend went out and bought one after spending some time with mine.
In all i would suggest trying to find some one with a ffp scope and try using it some and see what you personally like and think that will best fit you.
Spike
In all i would suggest trying to find some one with a ffp scope and try using it some and see what you personally like and think that will best fit you.
Spike
Shiraz
Site $$ Sponsor
Here's a good explanation with pictures of what a FFP scope is:
http://marchoptics.com/first-focal-plane
I disagree. They are two different animals all together; kind of like a truck vs car, they each excel in different areas. I have two F1 scopes and my last 2 (soon to be 3) scopes I've purchased have been SFP.
FFP has no advantage to SFP on a target rifle. Hunting I can maybe see it being a preference deal (I prefer SFP), "tactical" shooting is where FFP shines. When hunting I use the animal's body for my holdovers. When ranging using the reticle (something 99% can't do accurately, me included), you can still use a SFP dialed to the proper magnification level.
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I see no advantage in hunting either. Usually there is a power down from the top end where everything works out and you get the best of both worlds. When shooting out to 2000 Plus yards the FFP scopes reticule usually cover up to much. Sometimes we watch an animal for hours before shooting it. Matt
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CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
At the tactical steel matches I shoot the target distances vary greatly, and are timed such that you are switching between them quickly. You better have ffp to make the wind holdoffs correctly. Same situation applies when hunting, you better not be fiddle farting around trying to get your holdoffs correct. I do like sfp for Fclass and similar applications.
Spike A
Gold $$ Contributor
i agree for most target shooting sfp is used more because of the more fine reticle ( in my opinion) and you generally use it at highest power in which everything is set up for in the reticle anyways. i was just saying that i feel personally that for accross the bored i would rather have a scope in ffp for multiple applications because i do not want to be doing math for values of the reticle on top of finding distance and windage. how ever i do agree that if just target shooting and wont be changing power for what ever reason to make shots than i would also probably lean towards a sfp scope. And like i said also to each his own, i personally love my ffp for my purpose because i am constantly changing magnifications and some times i hold over some times i adjust it just all depends, its just much easier knowing no matter what i have my scope set at i know my values... thats not to say i would never buy a sfp scope just depends on my purpose. And when i said i completely agree that once you go ffp you wont go back i was just talking about that purpose i am sorry if that was taken out of context. There are always different ways to go to end up at the same spot, if just shooting paper and not in a more rapid tactical setting than i would agree that there are no advantages of ffp over sfp as you wont be changing things so much so fast and have to worry about getting confused. For years there weren't many ffp scopes out there and everyone seemed to get by just fine.. so i do not thing ffp is an absolute necessity, but in certain situations it does have its benefits that is all i was saying.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Its all in how tactical you have to be for the intended game
FFP works especially well for coyote hunting, where fast target engagement is paramount to success. The ability to hold off and/or holdover at any mag setting is something a SFP scope cannot allow for.
Deer hunting, you've got time to settle for a SFP, but a FFP is still perfectly usable & often preferable (to me).
Its all about the reticle you select. IMHO, most gripes shooters have about FFP scopes is due to improper reticle selection. Unless you're trying to poke the eye out of a knat at a mile, there's likely a FFP reticle that will fit the bill for whatever you're wanting to shoot...
Consider how many European "hunting" scopes are FFP before broadly dismissing them as somehow inferior for taking game. They use a reticle designed for a style of hunting, and the SFP design limitations are not a factor...
On the other hand, LR/benchrest type target shooting is a super-specialized discipline. Given that, recommending a FFP reticle makes about as much sense as recommending a Tooley MBR stock for a deer rifle.
The need for thread thin reticles and high magnification are prerequisites to success. Also, wind flags downrange that allow for dialing wind & waiting on conditions negate the need for a SFP scope to hold wind at any mag setting. In that regard, the versatility of a FFP scope is not as beneficial to such a specialized style of shooting...
Use good sense & select the best tool for the job. Just don't be too quick to sell a FFP scope short before considering reticle options & how they can help/hinder your ability to hit the target. Whatever it may be...
Deer hunting, you've got time to settle for a SFP, but a FFP is still perfectly usable & often preferable (to me).
Its all about the reticle you select. IMHO, most gripes shooters have about FFP scopes is due to improper reticle selection. Unless you're trying to poke the eye out of a knat at a mile, there's likely a FFP reticle that will fit the bill for whatever you're wanting to shoot...
Consider how many European "hunting" scopes are FFP before broadly dismissing them as somehow inferior for taking game. They use a reticle designed for a style of hunting, and the SFP design limitations are not a factor...
On the other hand, LR/benchrest type target shooting is a super-specialized discipline. Given that, recommending a FFP reticle makes about as much sense as recommending a Tooley MBR stock for a deer rifle.
The need for thread thin reticles and high magnification are prerequisites to success. Also, wind flags downrange that allow for dialing wind & waiting on conditions negate the need for a SFP scope to hold wind at any mag setting. In that regard, the versatility of a FFP scope is not as beneficial to such a specialized style of shooting...
Use good sense & select the best tool for the job. Just don't be too quick to sell a FFP scope short before considering reticle options & how they can help/hinder your ability to hit the target. Whatever it may be...
R.Morehouse
Gold $$ Contributor
Precision target shooting (known dist. ) 2nd FP moa. Minute of torso unknown distance reticle ranging fun the 1st FP is the ticket either in moa or mil what ever flavor you like. My precision LR scope is the NF Comp. I have a low power FFP on an AR with the 223 subtended ranging reticle out to 600 that is a hoot to play with.
Premier's Gen II XR reticle measures .025mrad thick at the x-hair.
If you don't care to do the math, that translates to the reticle covering only 0.9" at 1,000yds.
Therefore, 1.8" @ 2,000 yds.
Wondering if any LR BR shooters would find that reticle that to be "too thick" for target use?
For conversation...
If you don't care to do the math, that translates to the reticle covering only 0.9" at 1,000yds.
Therefore, 1.8" @ 2,000 yds.
Wondering if any LR BR shooters would find that reticle that to be "too thick" for target use?
For conversation...
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