1st Focal Plane or 2nd Focal Plane scope for varmints

[K9TXS]

Those of you that have both, which do you prefer for ground squirrels and prairie dogs?

I have both but haven't used either one for GS or PD's. Actually received the FFP by mistake. I ordered a 2nd FP and they sent the other.

 

[mike06]

Wish all my scopes were FFP no matter what I shoot at.

 

[jepp2]

A recent thread that will answer most of your quesitons: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/ffp-vs-sfp.3956551/

I shoot both on prairie dogs. I much prefer the FFP scope. Why? Once I establish my windage adjustment, if I have to reduce power due to mirage, I don't have to adjust my windage hold. So if I am holding 5 "ticks" for the wind at 200 yards, it is always 5 ticks, no matter what power I am using.

 

[fredo]

Yup.
No negatives to FFP for killin' critters, only positives. Just pick a reticle design that's suited to what you're shooting. Same holds true for SFP scopes, gotta choose your reticle, wisely...

 

[boltfluter]

2nd focal plane only for me. Sometimes FFP reticle will cover to much of the PD with the scope power cranked up. Or if coyote hunting, reticle disappears when you need to turn the power down. Choose your reticle wisely.

Paul

 

[FatBoy]

I agree with what's been said about reticle. I find the NP-R1 in my NXS is too fat for precision shooting. it would be fine for a coyote, etc. but it cover way too much of .5 MOA target for me to get a good aiming point unless I set the POA to a "corner" and adjust my come up and wind accordingly.

 

[1K6BRA]

Before I start I must be honest I have no experience with first focal plane scopes. I am sure they are great and I might be missing the boat, but their cost has kept me away from them. I have killed 2000+ groundhogs in my hunting career so far, 90% of them have been with a Leupold straight 24 X a 6.5 X 20 and a 8.5 X 25 .I once had a Unertal Ultra Varmit 15 X .It was cool looking sitting on top of a Ruger #1 but I saw no practical advantage in it. Most groundhogs I’ve shot over the years are between 200 and 500 yards with probably 20% of them pass that range,longest kill has been 880 yards and have shot out past 1000 but have not killed one yet that far .If you’re wallet allows you to have a first focal plane scope I’m sure it would not be a bad choice but I think it is not necessary.

 

[mikecr]

2nd focal plane
Laser ranging binoculars
Dialing elevation, with hold-off for wind & mirage.

 

[JRS]

Unless you are a competition target shooter, FFP forever

 

[jepp2]

I am sure they are great and I might be missing the boat, but their cost has kept me away from them.

This post is full of excellent points for both FFP and SFP scopes. But regarding cost, let me share my experiences.

My SFP scopes for prairie dogs were mostly the Leupold VX3 in either 6.5-20 x 50, or 8.5-25 x 50 in the long range versions with target turrets and Varmint Hunter reticles. Those scopes wholesale cost me $725 or $765 + $31 for ship, fuel and CC charge for the 6.5-20, and $810 + $40 for the 8.5-25.

My favorite FFP scope is the Vortex Viper 6-24 x 50 HS LR with the XLR reticle, and I recently bought those for $569 shipped to my door. This is my favorite reticle for PD's, and yes, in low light minimum power, you can't shoot a coyote because you cant see the reticle. If you aren't familiar with it, here is what it looks like at maximum power.

 

[K9TXS]

This post is full of excellent points for both FFP and SFP scopes. But regarding cost, let me share my experiences.

My SFP scopes for prairie dogs were mostly the Leupold VX3 in either 6.5-20 x 50, or 8.5-25 x 50 in the long range versions with target turrets and Varmint Hunter reticles. Those scopes wholesale cost me $725 or $765 + $31 for ship, fuel and CC charge for the 6.5-20, and $810 + $40 for the 8.5-25.

My favorite FFP scope is the Vortex Viper 6-24 x 50 HS LR with the XLR reticle, and I recently bought those for $576 shipped to my door. This is my favorite reticle for PD's, and yes, in low light minimum power, you can't shoot a coyote because you cant see the reticle. If you aren't familiar with it, here is what it looks like at maximum power.

View attachment 1062018

Where are you buying these from? When I've looked up the Viper HS LR 6-24x50, the prices start around the $800 range.

 

[jepp2]

Where are you buying these from?

I bought them from OpticsPlanet. But you have to realize they changes prices frequently (about like the airlines do for seats based on sales and time until flights). So I just add whatever I am interested in, either in my shopping cart or "saved for later". Then when I go to my shopping cart, it will have a header that shows price changes since I last looked. They change a lot, and I happened to catch the Vortex scope at a really low price and added a 5% off coupon.

I knew it was a very good price, so I posted it:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...n-a-new-vortex-viper-hs-lr-ffp-scope.3955363/

 

[jamesdmock]

I have shot both and my choice is SFP....especially for shooting Pd's and ground squirrels. Get a good 2nd focal plane scope with a MOA reticle and you're all set. Prairie dogs tend to hide behind the reticle of 1st Focal plane reticles at high power .

 

[fredo]

Prairie dogs tend to hide behind the reticle of 1st Focal plane reticles at high power .

Again, that's due to selecting an improper reticle for the task at hand.

Case in point, the main crosshairs of a Gen2XR reticle are 0.025mil thick, at center. Do you know what thickness value translates to, in inches, at any given distance?

I encourage you to do the math for yourself...

I honestly believe that shooters must be ignorant of knowing how many FFP reticle designs are out there. And/or are drawing blanket conclusions on very limited use of the the wrong one(s).

I've only killed p-dogs to about 800yds with FFPreticle, so can't comment on further than that. But I can say that, the reticle was NOT the limiting factor, the cartridge was!

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

I like the notion of buying a 2FP to save money and then getting a pair or Laser rangefinder binoculars.

Seriously though, there are so many advantages to the FFP that I would not consider buying another 2fp unless it said Balvar or Unertl on it.

 

[mike06]

This post is full of excellent points for both FFP and SFP scopes. But regarding cost, let me share my experiences.

My SFP scopes for prairie dogs were mostly the Leupold VX3 in either 6.5-20 x 50, or 8.5-25 x 50 in the long range versions with target turrets and Varmint Hunter reticles. Those scopes wholesale cost me $725 or $765 + $31 for ship, fuel and CC charge for the 6.5-20, and $810 + $40 for the 8.5-25.

My favorite FFP scope is the Vortex Viper 6-24 x 50 HS LR with the XLR reticle, and I recently bought those for $569 shipped to my door. This is my favorite reticle for PD's, and yes, in low light minimum power, you can't shoot a coyote because you cant see the reticle. If you aren't familiar with it, here is what it looks like at maximum power.

View attachment 1062018

That is exactly the scope I have. Love it. Vortex really stands behind their products.

 

[Randall Hardy]

Just went through this when I got back this spring, was sure I wanted ffp until I spent some time thinking about it. For me I have all 2fp scopes on my other rifles so going back and forth between rifles it made more sense to stay with the 2fp. That said I think whatever you choose will work well but I would just say pick one and run the same on all your pd rifles.
Randy

 

[Rem06]

i been running a ffp lately 6x24x50 PST Vortex Viper (few yrs) and used 2nd all my life including currently 5.5x22x50 NXS NP-R1...the ffp is definatly growing on me and ALL good so far. I see no reason for you not to try one. From what i researched, those who don't like ffp are just used to 2nd and don't like to change or feel the need to.

I have had several encounters using 2nd plane was a handicap and the first was not but never the other way around. Making ffp my favorite right now.

choose reticle wisely, they are not all too big..just as there are reticles too big in 2nd focal plane. voids that argument.

holdover same on all power, lit reticle...all good.

i see more good on ffp than 2nd

 

[Milo 2.0]

Just went through this when I got back this spring, was sure I wanted ffp until I spent some time thinking about it. For me I have all 2fp scopes on my other rifles so going back and forth between rifles it made more sense to stay with the 2fp. That said I think whatever you choose will work well but I would just say pick one and run the same on all your pd rifles.
Randy

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this, I've shot both for yrs, and now it's 90% FFP. If you were to shoot someone's gun with an FFP scope, I'm not positive you'd pick up that it was first focal, not that much difference. It's a scope, not like going chassis to a stock. I shoot moa and mils, on the same day most of the time, again not an issue.

It does not matter to me what you choose, both work fine, but complicating it for just that sake does not make sense.

 

[Randall Hardy]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this, I've shot both for yrs, and now it's 90% FFP. If you were to shoot someone's gun with an FFP scope, I'm not positive you'd pick up that it was first focal, not that much difference. It's a scope, not like going chassis to a stock. I shoot moa and mils, on the same day most of the time, again not an issue.

It does not matter to me what you choose, both work fine, but complicating it for just that sake does not make sense.

I’ll be the first to admit I don’t do change well. It seems to me that consistency relates to accuracy for me. I couldn’t go from moa to mils and back, I understand it’s only math, but kudos to those that can.