195's work in a 1-9", at least mine

[effendude]

Reposted from another thread: I have a hunting rifle in 284 Shehane, built specifically to use up tired match brass in hunting situations. It has a 1-9" barrel, 26" long. I loaded (5) 195's tonight to give them a try over 55 grains of H4831sc. My go to load before was 57 grains over a 180 Hybrid. In failing light, they produced a nice 1/2" group with 3 in the same hole and 2 just out with a 22X scope. Not bad for a guess load and seating depth. I will test more at longer distances as time allows but I am excited to shoot something with these bullets. Plenty good accuracy for a MN/WI deep woods rifle.
More results to follow,
Scott

Update on further testing this week: I set the seating depth to just off the lands, and did some quick testing at 300 yards. 55 grains of H4831sc with a 210M yielded a 5 shot group of just less than 1". Time didn't allow more testing and I don't even have a speed for the load yet, but the accuracy is great. I am very happy with the performance so far.

Scott

 

[JHardy]

You have to be on the ragged edge of barrel twist. You will find (sure you already know) that elevation and the pressure signs will vary from 1000 yard range to range, especially due to elevation. The 57 grain load in a Shehane with H4831 SC is about max for a 185 bullet. The 55 grain load MAY be ok. It sounds like you have your chamber throat cut for the 195.

My concerns are that your barrel is hammering in great conditions. Shooting in very cold conditions can change that. Shooting in 100* plus conditions (Like Camp Butner) can run your brass, your bolt face and your day.

Another concern I have is that many will find that the 185 will shoot inside the 195 in anything less than a magnum case. Maybe not. That means a change if bolt faces as well if you are working with the Shehane that is a great chambering. I already see great shooters I know on this board going BACK to the 185. The guys who purchased during the fire storm sales when the 185s were flying off the shelf for less than $.30 a bullet made out like bandit.

Time will tell. This is how you will know for sure: "Will the United States F-Class Open Team adopt and require shooting the 195?" If they do, it will probably be an RSAUM with an 8.5 twist or better. If your own testing is only say for 200 rounds with your newly preped brass, you will have already used up at least 20% of your competitive barrel life. I know that Berger and Bryan Litz will post very helpful data as more of their testing is done. There are Team members and great shooters posting here on the subject. I do find it interesting that your basic testing is more than any other 195 testing results I have seen on this board (could have missed it) and it is encouraging. Keep you eyes and ears open and maybe all my concerns will amount to nothing.

One thing is crystal clear in my mind is that if the 195 flourishes at long range it will be in a magnum case as the 185, with its great accuracy and higher velocity, will very likely shoot inside the 195 out of a 284 based case. In a magnum case, the ballistics change in favor of the 195. I believe that is where the 195 will live. Time for Norma to listen to Shraiz on the RSAUM brass. The combo of that brass and the 195 would still be rough on barrels but could be a game changer at 1000 for sure. I hope it all comes down.

Jim Hardy

 

[effendude]

Hi Jim,
I agree completely with your comments. I do know I am near the edge of stability according to the Berger calculator. My 28 Nosler with a 1-9.5" to 1-8.5" Bartlein isn't done yet, but I wanted to give these bullets a try. At 900' of elevation, I expect to not have any problems with this hunting rifle. Elevation and temp changes will effect this rifle/bullet quite a bit. My seating depth puts the boattail just at/below the neck/shoulder junction but accuracy was still great. The brass has turned necks, FL sized with a bushing giving approx. .002 tension. The primer pockets were not tight before I started, the goal was to use this brass for one or two more firings in hunting situations and not have to worry about losing it. The rifle was built before the 28 Nosler or the 195's were on the horizon. My point with the post was to encourage shooter to try these bullets. You never know....

I do have a magnum bolt for my Barnard and may do a SAUM in the future, but I too am not ready to give up my cherished 180 Hybrids for competition. Time will tell if these bullets will compete.

I shot a heavy whitetail with the 180 Hybrid last November with good results, but I would rather use a hunting bullet for game, at least deer.



Scott

 

[falconpilot]

What they do at 100 yards verses 600 or 1000 are two completely different things. I thought I'd found a good load with the 195's, running 2780 in my Walker based on 100 yard groups..had 5 shots going into .250 at 100. Carried this load to 600, and it was tall and ugly...give up on them after 200 rounds and many different load and seating depth changes...and I had a reamer cut just for the 195's, .270 freebore, in my 1-8 twist barrel. I'll come back and visit them after the Nationals.

 

[effendude]

3 shots over the chrono gave me an average speed of 2715fps. I hope to have some results on how the bullet performs on game by the end of the weekend.

Scott

 

[effendude]

Here is an update on the 195 and it's performance on game from this weekend:

My wife shot a 400# Russian boar Saturday morning with the .284 Shehane and the new 195 Berger bullet at 127 yards. Bullet placement was perfect, right in the pocket behind the shoulder with the boar quartering slightly to her. The bullet shredded the lungs and the top of the heart, and exited just behind the gristle plate on the off side. The boar ran 30 yards down hill and died. Field dressing the boar, there was shrapnel all over inside the vitals and the exit hole was oddly shaped.

Saturday evening, my wife shot a whitetail buck at 140 yards broadside in the pocket of the shoulder. Bang, drop, and two kicks. No exit wound. This deer was huge, weighing over 265# field dressed. The heart was exploded to twice the normal size with the lungs showing shrapnel damage too. The bullet made it to the offside ribs, breaking two and creating a big wound pocket, but not exiting. The remaining part of the bullet must have fallen back into the vitals as we never found it upon skinning.

Sunday morning, I shot a 400# plus boar at 80 yards. The boar was walking fast and I shot just in front of the shoulder bone to minimize meat damage. The boar dropped at the shot and never twitched. The guide stated in 12 years of watching hundreds of these tough animals being shot, none had ever just dropped like that. No leg kicking, no head tossing typical of spine or brain shots. He was amazed. The bullet punched through the thickest gristle plate either of us had ever seen and after sending shrapnel through the vitals, it was stopped by the gristle plate on the offside. I have not cleaned it to weigh it yet, but it is essentially just the copper jacket.

My wife has an elk hunt for later in November and we will use this rifle on that hunt too. I know my Shehane is not running at magnum velocities, but the speed would be very representative of what a 28 Nosler, UltraMag or even a short magnum would be impacting at a much longer distance. I look forward to getting my 28 Nosler done and use it on future hunts. I feel confident that the bullet will perform well on big game. The exception for me personally would be big, mean bears of Alaska and Russia. I will still use my .300 UltraMag or larger for those animals.

I will try to post photos in the next few days.

Scott

 

[bsumoba]

Here is an update on the 195 and it's performance on game from this weekend:

My wife shot a 400# Russian boar Saturday morning with the .284 Shehane and the new 195 Berger bullet at 127 yards. Bullet placement was perfect, right in the pocket behind the shoulder with the boar quartering slightly to her. The bullet shredded the lungs and the top of the heart, and exited just behind the gristle plate on the off side. The boar ran 30 yards down hill and died. Field dressing the boar, there was shrapnel all over inside the vitals and the exit hole was oddly shaped.

Saturday evening, my wife shot a whitetail buck at 140 yards broadside in the pocket of the shoulder. Bang, drop, and two kicks. No exit wound. This deer was huge, weighing over 265# field dressed. The heart was exploded to twice the normal size with the lungs showing shrapnel damage too. The bullet made it to the offside ribs, breaking two and creating a big wound pocket, but not exiting. The remaining part of the bullet must have fallen back into the vitals as we never found it upon skinning.

Sunday morning, I shot a 400# plus boar at 80 yards. The boar was walking fast and I shot just in front of the shoulder bone to minimize meat damage. The boar dropped at the shot and never twitched. The guide stated in 12 years of watching hundreds of these tough animals being shot, none had ever just dropped like that. No leg kicking, no head tossing typical of spine or brain shots. He was amazed. The bullet punched through the thickest gristle plate either of us had ever seen and after sending shrapnel through the vitals, it was stopped by the gristle plate on the offside. I have not cleaned it to weigh it yet, but it is essentially just the copper jacket.

My wife has an elk hunt for later in November and we will use this rifle on that hunt too. I know my Shehane is not running at magnum velocities, but the speed would be very representative of what a 28 Nosler, UltraMag or even a short magnum would be impacting at a much longer distance. I look forward to getting my 28 Nosler done and use it on future hunts. I feel confident that the bullet will perform well on big game. The exception for me personally would be big, mean bears of Alaska and Russia. I will still use my .300 UltraMag or larger for those animals.

I will try to post photos in the next few days.

Scott

VERY NICE! Sounds like it is a good bullet not only for target, but for hunting

 

[effendude]

Ran the Shehane out to 600 yards this morning. 1" of elevation, 3" of width on a 3 shot group with a 22X scope. I will put the F-class scope on it after hunting seasons are over for a more accurate test. 32* temp at 900 feet of elevation. 2715 fps. 13 MOA from a 100 yard zero to 600 yards.

Scott

 

[CJ6]

Scott, Out of curiosity how much meat do you think was lost from the fragmenting? I know the ranges were (relatively) close.

 

[effendude]

Roger,
All shots avoided the shoulder bones. The off side on the deer had a large damaged area (bloodshot) on the ribs where the bullet landed, breaking a couple ribs. Otherwise, the only damage was to the vitals. We actually hard a hard time finding the entrance wound on the deer until we skinned it. It was a perfect 7mm hole and the fat had sealed the hole from any blood loss on that side. The internal organs all had a huge amount of damage and you could feel shrapnel in the tissue. I guess the thick hide and gristle plate helped initiate expansion on the boars as their entrance wounds were easily visible.

Scott

 

[Erud]

Good write-up, Scott - very informative. I'm not a hunter, but reading stuff like this makes me wish I was!

Best,
Erik

 

[boltfluter]

Scott,

Very nice report and sounds like a great hunting trip. Nothing quite like real life results. Looking forward to the pics.

Regards, Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[effendude]

I'll try to post some photos tomorrow.
Scott