195 EOL, 215 Hybrid, 300 Hybrid, 131 ACE for Q Creek ELR Match

[257Blackjack]

I wanted to check the 25 Cal Handicap for guys running 25 SST/SAUM/PRC and ran the numbers on some common cartridges you see at the Nightforce Q Creek ELR match held annually. Turns out the 25 SST or SAUM will run with the best of em.

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The Applied Ballistics WEZ Hit Probability shows guys running Short Action Mags with 131 ACE's will fair just fine...



Overall the 131 ACE fairs quite well launched from a SST, SAUM, or PRC with 60-65 grains of powder compared to bigger cases like 28 Nosler or 300 Norma with 83-93 grains of powder.

Some guys can drive the higher recoil rifles just fine but I know for me I will shoot the 10 lb recoil Short Mag setup better than the 21-32# recoil coming from the bigger Long Action Magnums.

Each of these cartridges can be ran 50-100 fps faster with powders and different barrel lengths but overall a very fair horse race. I don't mind coming in at 2nd in Wind in this setup considering how much less powder and recoil a guy has to accept to come out ahead.





To saddle up in High Performance 25 Cal a guy will need a 1:7.5" Twist Blank like those coming in early April from Bartlein Barrels, Inc & Hawk Hill Custom & Rock Creek Barrels, Inc. & Blake Barrel And Rifle and a 25x284 (3100-3200 fps), 25 SAUM (3250-3350+), 25 PRC, or 257 WBY (3300-3400+) Reamer which are all coming in about 1-2 months from JGS and Manson

The Bartleins and Reamers are selling F A S T !!!

We ordered as many as we could afford knowing how the last batch sold out.

We originally put up $10,000 for the top shooter running Blackjack Bullets if he or she Wins, but I wanted to give everyone with a quarterbore a shot at some $$$, so here's a pic of the $2,570.00 I pulled for the Top Blackjack Bullets shooter no matter where they place in the match




I truly hope 25 cal wins this year and jumpstarts the realization of what it can do in both Long Range Hunting and in the Competition theater.

 

[Alpine]

I have a new action, and 800-pcs of 25-WSSM brass. Now only if I could get a Bartlein 7.5 twist in Heavy Varmint, and a reamer in enough time for my Smith to build it and be ready for the match.

This will be my forth year shooting the match, so let's see what happens?

 

[257Blackjack]

I have a new action, and 800-pcs of 25-WSSM brass. Now only if I could get a Bartlein 7.5 twist in Heavy Varmint, and a reamer in enough time for my Smith to build it and be ready for the match.

This will be my forth year shooting the match, so let's see what happens?

We will have a bunch of Bartlein 7.5s coming in early April and have a few HV left for pre-order. The 7.5s and our latest batch of SAUM, PRC, and 284 reamers are selling fast.

Q Creek is one of the best matches in the US and I can't wait to get back up there. I think I only went to year #1 or #2.

I've got quite a bit on the line this year and need to be there!

 

[sdean]

Ballistics ain't everything. Hard to compare seeing your hits between a 131 and 300 gr bullet at longer ranges. That being said I might try them in Fclass where they mark your hits every shot.

 

[257Blackjack]

Ballistics ain't everything. Hard to compare seeing your hits between a 131 and 300 gr bullet at longer ranges. That being said I might try them in Fclass where they mark your hits every shot.

Yes of course it depends if you need to kill something really hard with all the extra energy downrange and at your shoulder or just make contact with the target at the same hit probability.

For competitive roles instead of hunting or military hit probability with lower recoil is usually the way to go for most shooters. Most national level long range matches utilize flasher for targets over 1000 yards and especially for those past 1400 yards.

 

[257Blackjack]

Ballistics ain't everything. Hard to compare seeing your hits between a 131 and 300 gr bullet at longer ranges. That being said I might try them in Fclass where they mark your hits every shot.

There will be 17 Blake Barrel and Rifle 1.25" Straight F-Class style blanks hitting the market soon. From all indications Blake makes as good a tube as anyone.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Yes of course it depends if you need to kill something really hard with all the extra energy downrange and at your shoulder or just make contact with the target at the same hit probability.

For competitive roles instead of hunting or military hit probability with lower recoil is usually the way to go for most shooters. Most national level long range matches utilize flasher for targets over 1000 yards and especially for those past 1400 yards.

Go Test it at E2K in Montana at the End of the Month at Broadwater Gun Club in Townsend, MT and let us know how it works out.

 

[cinch29433]

Go Test it at E2K in Montana at the End of the Month at Broadwater Gun Club in Townsend, MT and let us know how it works out.

Go test whatever there today the high is gonna be -2

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I wanted to check the 25 Cal Handicap for guys running 25 SST/SAUM/PRC and ran the numbers on some common cartridges you see at the Nightforce Q Creek ELR match held annually. Turns out the 25 SST or SAUM will run with the best of em.

Until the wind starts blowing (LOL)

 

[257Blackjack]

Go Test it at E2K in Montana at the End of the Month at Broadwater Gun Club in Townsend, MT and let us know how it works out.

Wow I did not know about this 2000 yard match. I am quite busy but read over the notes and looks to be mostly an F-Class style target for size match set at only 2000 yds?

This would be much more daunting than Q Creek ELR which ranges from 800-2100 yds with average distance at 1200-1400 yds where the 131 ACE is actually on par with other magnum setups and benefits from reduced recoil.

In the E2K with rifles of 40 lbs the recoil advantage is nullified but this would still be a fun match to travel to and I will check my schedule to see if I can take a 25 SAUM or WSM up there.

Definitely a cool new format, perhaps expensive if it catches on for guys running 284 and 300 magnums and still expensive but nicer on barrels for the 338 guys.

A 1 mile event like this would suit the 131 ACE, 150 SMK, and 195 EOL type bullets a little better. Dedicated 2000+ yards is really the home of bigger stuff day to day.

 

[257Blackjack]

Until the wind starts blowing (LOL)

I did not run the numbers to check trajectory. The AB WEZ Hit probability factors in wind speed and certainty. The assumption is largely bigger is better and for many guys there is no way in mathematics or argument to dissuade them of that even with equivalent ballistics in the most advanced ballistic software.

Many guys said the same thing about 284 when 30 cal was king.

In this E2k with very heavy 40 pound rifles the 25 cal scenario loses it's points of advantage compared to field scenarios of actually hiking around a match with your rifle and the fatigue of two days of 20-30# recoil from magnums. There's no doubt a 30 or 338 should be winning E2K with this COF.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Wow I did not know about this 2000 yard match. I am quite busy but read over the notes and looks to be mostly an F-Class style target for size match set at only 2000 yds?

This would be much more daunting than Q Creek ELR which ranges from 800-2100 yds with average distance at 1200-1400 yds where the 131 ACE is actually on par with other magnum setups and benefits from reduced recoil.

In the E2K with rifles of 40 lbs the recoil advantage is nullified but this would still be a fun match to travel to and I will check my schedule to see if I can take a 25 SAUM or WSM up there.

Definitely a cool new format, perhaps expensive if it catches on for guys running 284 and 300 magnums and still expensive but nicer on barrels for the 338 guys.

A 1 mile event like this would suit the 131 ACE, 150 SMK, and 195 EOL type bullets a little better. Dedicated 2000+ yards is really the home of bigger stuff day to day.

- In August 2018 at the inaugural match everything 30 cal. & below shot pretty "large" from a group standpoint. The target is the MR-1
In fact many had trouble staying on a 8 ft. by 8 ft. target backer board. - I hope you give it a try, I'd like to know how it does.

 

[257Blackjack]

- In August 2018 at the inaugural match everything 30 cal. & below shot pretty "large" from a group standpoint. The target is the MR-1
In fact many had trouble staying on a 8 ft. by 8 ft. target backer board. - I hope you give it a try, I'd like to know how it does.

If I can carve out the time I will try. It's definitely outside the realms of probabilities compared to Q Creek where a win or high placement is doable.

There's another ELR league that skipped the 1320-2200 yards bandwidth that left out the dead zone where PRS/NRL/F Class stop. I definitely loving poking around past 1760 yards but I think there's definitely space in the shooting community to focus on the 3/4 mile to 1 mile bandwidth and have a lot of fun doing it with regular to dedicated rifles.

F ELR: Strings @ 1320, 1760, 2200

That would be a ton of fun.

 

[Deleted calshipbuilder]

A few years back a shooter placed in or near top 10 with a 6.5x47 at the NF Q Creek match. He though he lost a point or two for not setting off hit indicators, but that was speculation. The 6.5 prc also has done well.

I think a 257 short mag won’t hold someone back much if at all, especially with the 10k DA. However spotting misses on a damp day like we had last year might be tough. Looking forward to see what that 131 ace will do out there, good luck!

 

[257Blackjack]

A few years back a shooter placed in or near top 10 with a 6.5x47 at the NF Q Creek match. He though he lost a point or two for not setting off hit indicators, but that was speculation. The 6.5 prc also has done well.

I think a 257 short mag won’t hold someone back much if at all, especially with the 10k DA. However spotting misses on a damp day like we had last year might be tough. Looking forward to see what that 131 ace will do out there, good luck!

Yes IIRC that shooter was Tom Lancaster but I don't get much sleep so maybe my memory is off a few clicks.

I'll be running a 25 SST at about 3300-3400 fps in a Blake Barrel and Rifle at 30-32" most likely. Can't wait to put it together.

 

[dkhunt14]

A few years back a shooter placed in or near top 10 with a 6.5x47 at the NF Q Creek match. He though he lost a point or two for not setting off hit indicators, but that was speculation. The 6.5 prc also has done well.

I think a 257 short mag won’t hold someone back much if at all, especially with the 10k DA. However spotting misses on a damp day like we had last year might be tough. Looking forward to see what that 131 ace will do out there, good luck!

That's the problem most ELR shooters have. If you can't see the splashes, it makes it almost impossible to hit the targets. The smaller lighter bullets are harder to see, especially if conditions are not ideal.

I shoot 1000 yard BR and we have pits. You are standing about 50 yards from the impact area and early in the morning or days after a rain, the 6mm bullets are really hard to see hit the bank. If the bank is wet enough, even a 210 grain 30 cal can hard to see. Matt