185gr Berger Speed in 308 Win

[bootlaceb]

What are you guys getting speed wise out of the 308 using the 185gr Bergers? I am aiming at 2750fps, is it being optimistic?
BG

 

[FroggyOne2]

That depends on the barrel length. I know some guys that are pushing them in the 2900 range.

 

[Laurie]

2,750-2,800 is a good MV from a 30" barrel. If you already have the rifle and have some good loads that have been chronographed, a good way to ascertain likely MVs from a new bullet weight is to calculate the ME from an existing load and see what MV produces that from the new weight.

eg 155 at 3,000 fps = 3,098.35 ft/lb ME
3,098.35 ft / lb = 2,746 fps with 185gn bullet

This assumes you change powder if needed to suit the new bullet weight of course. There are various ME calculators on the web that make it easy to do this sort of calculation.

PS when people claim 2,900 fps from 185s, that's 3,455 ft/lbs ME, well into short magnum energies. Convert it to MV for a 155gn bullet and it equates to nearly 3,170 fps which is a HOT, HOT load in .308 Win, frankly not safely achievable in most rifles and barrels.

 

[deadlyswift]

2,750-2,800 is a good MV from a 30" barrel. If you already have the rifle and have some good loads that have been chronographed, a good way to ascertain likely MVs from a new bullet weight is to calculate the ME from an existing load and see what MV produces that from the new weight.

eg 155 at 3,000 fps = 3,098.35 ft/lb ME
3,098.35 ft / lb = 2,746 fps with 185gn bullet

This assumes you change powder if needed to suit the new bullet weight of course. There are various ME calculators on the web that make it easy to do this sort of calculation.

PS when people claim 2,900 fps from 185s, that's 3,455 ft/lbs ME, well into short magnum energies. Convert it to MV for a 155gn bullet and it equates to nearly 3,170 fps which is a HOT, HOT load in .308 Win, frankly not safely achievable in most rifles and barrels.

Can't agree more! Laurie is spot on with this info! I agree 100%!

 

[bootlaceb]

Thanks Laurie
2900 !!! Wow...I was aiming at 2750fps with a 30" tube. My lead needs to be cut out a little more to seat the bullet out for more powder space. With this speed it seems one should get around 1370fps at 1000yrds with the new 185gr Hybrid.
Has anyone tried them yet ? I believe they busy testing currently.

 

[FroggyOne2]

I used to shoot the 185's at 2850 and it was wasting the brass on the first shot. I went back to the 155's.

 

[Steve Blair]

My 185 BT-LR match load with 30" Shilen and Reloder 17 is 2800. I am assembling 150 of them for a 5X1000 this weekend at Camp Pendleton.

 

[Heman]

2740ish I think in my 32" 1:11.25 Kreiger. Only place of shot my rifle is Oak Ridge and I'm using 21MOA for 800, and 31 MOA for 1000 with my 185 based on a 100 yard zero. I haven't chronographed my load but quickload says thats what it should be and plugging the 2740 number into JBM gives me the comeups that gets me on paper nearly waterline.

 

[Laurie]

Thanks Laurie
2900 !!! Wow...I was aiming at 2750fps with a 30" tube. My lead needs to be cut out a little more to seat the bullet out for more powder space. With this speed it seems one should get around 1370fps at 1000yrds with the new 185gr Hybrid.
Has anyone tried them yet ? I believe they busy testing currently.

Be wary about extending the throat before you see and measure the Hybrid - I'm told that they need modest freebore in the 7mm version and that when translated to .308, it may be that a chamber cut for the 155.5 or similar will suit the new design best.

So far as availability is concerned, Michelle Gallagher of Berger Bullets has just put a post on the US Rifle Teams Long-Range Shooting Forum inviting would-be field testers to apply for a box each of the 185 and 200gn 0.308" Hybrids on condition that range / competition results are returned by the end of next month. That suggests an autumn launch for the pair unless some snag turns up. It's a real shame that the company 'offer' only applies (thanks to export licensing requirements) to shooters in the continental USA - I'd love to have a preview of these two bullets.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[onlyfineknives]

I run the 185 berger in my Surgeon 308 with a Krieger 26" 5R barrel. I'm using Win brass and getting 2725 without issues. It will go to 2750 in cooler weather, but in weather like we have now I was getting sticky bolt lift every once in a while.

With the 2725 - no problems.

Shannon

 

[dreever]

I guess I'm way to conserative. I'm running 2610 fps from my 24 inch barreled GA Precision Hospitaller using 43.3 grains of varget, CCI 250, Lapua brass, Berger 185 BTHP Long Range. Bullets seated to a max mag length of 2.885. Very conservative load, but super accurate. I've shot sub 3.5-4 inch groups at our ranges maximum of 822 yards off the bench in good conditions witnessed by a whole bunch of guys, which I think are fantastic groups for a Tactical rifle. In my opinion accuracy always trumps velocity.

Danny

 

[Steve Blair]

In my opinion accuracy always trumps velocity.

While accuracy is obviously the strongest consideration, it is not the only one. Take two loads, one producing .25 MOA groups at shorter ranges and the other .4 MOA. The better grouping load is likely the better choice unless if has poor velocity spreads, is much slower than the other load, or uses an unsuitable bullet. The accuracy of the .4 load is adequate for F-Class and would outperform the slower load at long range in windy conditions given the other factors. A load with Sierra 168 MK or Lapua 185 Scenars might perform extremely well at 600 yards but either would be a poor choice at 1000 for ballistic reasons.

I like accurate loads as much as the next guy, but it is not the sole determinant. For long range loads, I want it all; accuracy, velocity, small SD and ballistically excellent bullets. Generally, I see no good reason to compromise on any of them, given the outstanding component and equipment choices we have available.

 

[dreever]

There is always a tradeoff for more velocity, and it's usually brass life. Sure you can push the 185's much faster, and can buck the wind a little better, however if you are wrecking the brass on the first loading like Froggyone mentioned it can get a bit expensive considering the cost of Lapua. For those who single load and can seat the bullets out further this is a help. If you are limited to magazine length like most Tactical guys case capacity becomes a big factor. This is what hurts the 185 Hybrid with it's long nose. You have to seat it too deep in the .308 case for magazine loading.

Danny

 

[nfhjr62]

Was starting a load test with 185 gr. hpbt long range bullets with 40.0 gr Varget, Savage FT/R, 308 30 inch barrel
AV: 2440.7 fps
ES: 25.8 fps

High 2451.7 fps
Low 2425.9 fps

SD: 8.9 fps
CU: 0.4%

MAD: 7.1 fps
CU: 0.3%

AV: 2440.7 fps
ES: 25.8 fps

Then the battery went dead in my crono

 

[PHINPAD]

Here are some results from my load testing today.

Rem 700 action 32" 5R Border barrel
Viht 550 CCI BR Primers Range is roughly 200 meters above sea level, temp was 15deg.

46.8 grains 2704 fps
47.0 grains 2717
Realising that I needed a bit more I jumped a few grains
47.5 grains 2801 Best group
47.7 grains 2829
47.9 grains 2828 group starting to open out and bolt starting to become a little stiff to open.

Despite knowing that these like a jump, for some reason I loaded the last 3 weights pretty close to touching.
I will go back to 45.7 grains and start backing off until I get to around 20thou jump or signs of pressure show.

Dave

 

[allen529]

Here are some results from my load testing today.

Rem 700 action 32" 5R Border barrel
Viht 550 CCI BR Primers Range is roughly 200 meters above sea level, temp was 15deg.

46.8 grains 2704 fps
47.0 grains 2717
Realising that I needed a bit more I jumped a few grains
47.5 grains 2801 Best group
47.7 grains 2829
47.9 grains 2828 group starting to open out and bolt starting to become a little stiff to open.

Despite knowing that these like a jump, for some reason I loaded the last 3 weights pretty close to touching.
I will go back to 45.7 grains and start backing off until I get to around 20thou jump or signs of pressure show.

Dave,

Be careful as the temperature goes up. VV550 does not like hot weather

 

[allen529]

Sorry for the double post but its sometimes difficult using a phone to respond to threads.

Dave,

Be careful going up in charge weights if 15 degree is in C. If youre getting those velocities in 59 degree F then your doing better than I could go in my rig. I hit pressure rather quickly at 47.2 in 48 F weather shooting 185s. As the temp went up to 80's I ended up shooting 46.4 grn with an occasional hard bolt lift. I shoot winchester brass and russian primers. With temps in the 90's and above now I wouldnt want to even try anything above 46.

 

[PHINPAD]

Allen,

Thanks for the heads up, I will be testing another two loads this week and I predict it to be roughly 20/68, so will be looking out for any additional signs.
Temps above 30/86 in the UK are rare.
I do not wish to be running hot loads so will be happy to come down a bit if need be,

Dave

 

[PHINPAD]

Eventually got back to the range, here are some figure for my rifle, hope that they are of use to someone.

Like many I have read lots re the dangers of changing the OAL of a round and the consequent dangerous rise in pressures.


My starting/previous OAL was 2.150" Deciding to take the process steady, I loaded 47.3 gn of Viht 550 & CCI BR primers at .005 stages starting at 2.130" and fired 10 each over the chrono from the bench.

2.130 = ave 2775fps
2.125 = ave 2779fps
2.120 = ave 2783fps
2.115 = ave 2799fps?
2.110 = ave 2785fps

2785fps is a good velocity for the distances I shoot, so I will stay with that one for the time being.


So not the great leaps in velocity that I was expecting between loads. All cases were checked for pressure and all appeared OK.

Dave

 

[1000yardstare]

Just got my first two boxes of Berger 185 gr BTLR, lot # 3143.

Used my Sinclair OAL gauge to determine an OAL of 2.955 inch in my Savage 10 twist 26 inch VLP. Decided to seat at 2.935 over 43 gr Varget to start, unturned Win brass, Win LR primer.

Chronod at 2610 fps.

Fired neck diam .341
sized neck diam .330
seated neck diam .333

Gusty cross wind so didn`t do any accuracy testing. Waiting for a calm day next week.

According to my ballistics program zeroed at 300 yds would require 31.5 minutes of up at 1000 yds. Will be interesting to see at an F Class practise in a few weeks how close that come-up actually is.

Sometime during the Winter a 28 inch Shilen 12 twist will replace the factory barrel.

Bill