185 Juggernaughts or......

[kiwijohn]

So I have been shooting FTR with 155.5 bullets for three years now. Its doing ok especially runnning at 3070 Fps, but I am wanting to try the "heavies " to hopefully gain a point or two past 600 yds.
I have a spare 1:10 twist barrel throated for 200's so the chamber is deep enough.
We shoot in moderately windy competition out to 1000yds and can expect anything from 3 to 8 MOA on an average day with the 155.5 so I expect to save a couple of MOA on that with anything heavier, thus improving the hit window for poor wind calls.
I have the chance to try 185 bergs and 200 hybrids, I also have 208 ELDM's
I can buy the 185's and the 200 hyb off a fellow shooter so maybe not full price? Price is a consideration too as the bergers run around the $2 mark here for 200.20
My intention is to learn to walk with the 208 ELDM's as I have 600 of them on hand, and get velocity, experience, then change over for comps to the Berger.
For those that have done it, am i wasting time to use the 185? is the 200 hyb that much better or grit my teeth and shoot 200.20's Powder will be Varget, in small primer brass, barrel is 31"

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Sounds like a ballistic calculator question

Compare them in wind and see if the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[X Count]

The guts of it is. Ballistically the 208 is better BUT it requires a much longer throat than anything else in the 185-200gr realm. You really need a dedicated barrel for that bullet as it's closer to a 215-230 in throat requirements.

Go to the 200s. Two steps in front of the 155 and if you already have a barrel throated for the 185-200s then go for it. Likely tune somewhere around 2680-2730 with varget.

 

[kiwijohn]

The guts of it is. Ballistically the 208 is better BUT it requires a much longer throat than anything else in the 185-200gr realm. You really need a dedicated barrel for that bullet as it's closer to a 215-230 in throat requirements.

Go to the 200s. Two steps in front of the 155 and if you already have a barrel throated for the 185-200s then go for it. Likely tune somewhere around 2680-2730 with varget.

@X Count are you meaning the ELDX 208 or a berger 208? I can seat the ELDX out to 3.0640 OAL to the lands.

 

[Precisionhunter417]

185 juggs or 200 hybrids stomp 155.5 fb any day of the week. But, i would go with 200 hybrids for any 1k match over the 185 jugg.

 

[ELR LVR]

So I have been shooting FTR with 155.5 bullets for three years now. Its doing ok especially runnning at 3070 Fps, but I am wanting to try the "heavies " to hopefully gain a point or two past 600 yds.
I have a spare 1:10 twist barrel throated for 200's so the chamber is deep enough.
We shoot in moderately windy competition out to 1000yds and can expect anything from 3 to 8 MOA on an average day with the 155.5 so I expect to save a couple of MOA on that with anything heavier, thus improving the hit window for poor wind calls.
I have the chance to try 185 bergs and 200 hybrids, I also have 208 ELDM's
I can buy the 185's and the 200 hyb off a fellow shooter so maybe not full price? Price is a consideration too as the bergers run around the $2 mark here for 200.20
My intention is to learn to walk with the 208 ELDM's as I have 600 of them on hand, and get velocity, experience, then change over for comps to the Berger.
For those that have done it, am i wasting time to use the 185? is the 200 hyb that much better or grit my teeth and shoot 200.20's Powder will be Varget, in small primer brass, barrel is 31"

180 Warner Tool Co. Flatline Solid Copper bullets
CFE-223 Powder for it
You will cut your elevation down about 3 MOA plus be very accurate
10 Twist is OK
---
Caution: spensive but , how bad you want it?

 

[kiwijohn]

Mmm yeah them flatliners are spendy!! Do they call em flat liners because that's what shows on your cardiograph

 

[X Count]

@X Count are you meaning the ELDX 208 or a berger 208? I can seat the ELDX out to 3.0640 OAL to the lands.

208 eld-m. Not sure what the OAL is but Im running .290 FB. If you have them in hand seat them so the bearing surface is above the neck shoulder junction and see if you can chamber one.

 

[mgunderson]

I applaud you shooting the 155s in ftr. It is always amazing to me to look back at the early days of fclass and see how the sport changed. Instead of switching bullets maybe grab a sling and some irons. The target is bigger!

 

[kiwijohn]

I applaud you shooting the 155s in ftr. It is always amazing to me to look back at the early days of fclass and see how the sport changed. Instead of switching bullets maybe grab a sling and some irons. The target is bigger!

Shoulder surgery has prevented my continuation in that discipline. Both rotator cuffs. I can hold the rifle in a sling for one detail then its over, I do .303 events that have less ranges to be shot in a jacket and sling.
We also have a division of FTR called Classic, that is limited to 155 bullets just like TR, it is very popular here compared to FTR, we would have 3 x more shooters at an event in Classic than in FTR. If I want to progress into international shooting I need to go to heavier projectiles and learn how to drive them.

 

[kiwijohn]

208 eld-m. Not sure what the OAL is but Im running .290 FB. If you have them in hand seat them so the bearing surface is above the neck shoulder junction and see if you can chamber one.

Ran one into the chamber as you suggested ( may be a bit of jam there)
Which would allow for the freebore appearing a little longer. But i think we are in the ball park of 0.290

 

[X Count]

That looks pretty good. 185s would have a long trip to the lands with that FB.

I'm running 44.2gr of varget in a Barnard with alpha brass and getting 2660-2680 in a 32" barrel. This is safe in my gun but work up slowly. Especially with recent batch variations of varget. It's a bit of handfull in a 8.25kg rifle compared to the 155s so you may need to adjust your technique accordingly.

 

[kiwijohn]

Will be in a Barnard SM. First loads out the gate will be 43.5 Varget at two different jumps. GRT gives me 2641 and 2632 but we will see what the chrono says.
I was getting 2587 from 42 1/2 grains in my palma throated barrel.
Don't get to put the barrel in until after next weekend, we have a shoot coming up that sees me competing as Classic division.

 

[Fire Dog]

So I have been shooting FTR with 155.5 bullets for three years now. Its doing ok especially runnning at 3070 Fps, but I am wanting to try the "heavies " to hopefully gain a point or two past 600 yds.
I have a spare 1:10 twist barrel throated for 200's so the chamber is deep enough.
We shoot in moderately windy competition out to 1000yds and can expect anything from 3 to 8 MOA on an average day with the 155.5 so I expect to save a couple of MOA on that with anything heavier, thus improving the hit window for poor wind calls.
I have the chance to try 185 bergs and 200 hybrids, I also have 208 ELDM's
I can buy the 185's and the 200 hyb off a fellow shooter so maybe not full price? Price is a consideration too as the bergers run around the $2 mark here for 200.20
My intention is to learn to walk with the 208 ELDM's as I have 600 of them on hand, and get velocity, experience, then change over for comps to the Berger.
For those that have done it, am i wasting time to use the 185? is the 200 hyb that much better or grit my teeth and shoot 200.20's Powder will be Varget, in small primer brass, barrel is 31"

G’day Johno,
I have a friend shooting FTR with the Berger “Jugs” and they are just winning for him in his rifle.
He said that they perform better than the 200’s….
There ya go for what it is worth… North Is or S Is?
Isn’t it a killer with the exchange rate $Kiwi vs $US…!
Only slightly better on the other side of the ditch… $Au looses 1/3 against $US
Haven’t shot the 185’s in my Styer 308 {Deer rifle} but with Peterson SmP/smflash I needed to go to AR2206 + CCI450’s instead of AR2208 (Varget) to get all the powder to burn in my 24” barrel but with 44gr behind 168 A-Max I was dropping 5 in nearly the same hole at a 100mt, that being a 1/4” better than I had been getting with LC Match brass {Ex US Mil} with Lg R-primers & AR2208 {Varget}
The small primer and small flash hole is not for nothing called Palma Brass…
Aim straight, shoot small… Cheers

 

[kiwijohn]

@Fire Dog thanks for the info, I'm in the north island. So what part of the Eastern island are you in mate?
Is he coming over for our Nats in January? I know a few will be as part of the APS shoot after the Nationals.
Cheers John

 

[Fire Dog]

@Fire Dog thanks for the info, I'm in the north island. So what part of the Eastern island are you in mate?
Is he coming over for our Nats in January? I know a few will be as part of the APS shoot after the Nationals.
Cheers John

Mid North Coast NSW, Wingham…
He won’t make it this year due to being crippled up for months now with gout… {:~/
January in NZ is a great time of year… the Pōhutukawa are all in bloom..
Last trip for me was that month long window during the C-19 shutdown…
I would like to bring back the latest AMP and move on my MK 1… Nothing wrong with it just like the features on the new one…

 

[Trevor60]

Down the rabbit hole we go.

I would pass on the 208 ELDM they are not as consistent as the Bergers. This shows up on target more often than you would like.

Between the 185's and 200 Hybrids it would depend.
The 185 are more accurate and running them at 2,825fps is a great combo.
The 200's higher BC allow for a larger wind error but is dependent on speed to better the 185's.
If you are running the 200's in the 2,600 - 2,640fps range the advantage is nominal over the 185's at 2,825 flatter shooting combination.
If you can reach the next node the 200's in the 2,720-2,750fps the accuracy difference is mute as the much better wind advantage easily overcome the performance of the 185 combo.

Trevor

 

[LVLAaron]

200 hybrids for LR. Great bullet. Easy to tune.

 

[kiwijohn]

Down the rabbit hole we go.

I would pass on the 208 ELDM they are not as consistent as the Bergers. This shows up on target more often than you would like.

Between the 185's and 200 Hybrids it would depend.
The 185 are more accurate and running them at 2,825fps is a great combo.
The 200's higher BC allow for a larger wind error but is dependent on speed to better the 185's.
If you are running the 200's in the 2,600 - 2,640fps range the advantage is nominal over the 185's at 2,825 flatter shooting combination.
If you can reach the next node the 200's in the 2,720-2,750fps the accuracy difference is mute as the much better wind advantage easily overcome the performance of the 185 combo.

Trevor

Good info thanks, yes that dam rabbit hole! hence my query as to 185 / 200 and as you say the speed advantage verse the wind drift advantage.
At the end of the day its going to have to be a suck it and see approach.

 

[LVLAaron]

If you're shooting e-targets at 1000, you probably NEED to run 200's.