185 BT Long Range Bergers, your opinion

[DennisH]

Bruno's has them in stock and selling them!

The new Berger .308 Caliber 185 grain LRBT (Juggernaut) 30418 part number

The 185 OTM taticals part number: BER30107

The new 185 link
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BSS&Product_Code=BER30418

 

[Heavies]

What's up with changing the name. Dangit!

 

[DennisH]

When we find out, we will let you know. I place a large order from Berger yesterday and was told the above.

It seems as of now, the only way your going to know is when you order some. I sure people are trying to sell off the left over BTLR's! I didn't even see this info on Berger's website.

I was shocked to find the "new name" ones on Bruno's website!

 

[ar15topgun]

I went to Bruno's wesite and noticed there was not a listing of the Berger 185 hybrid. It is my understanding that the hybrid line of bullets are the cat's meow when it comes to the best design and performer. So what's the difference between the 185 hybrid and the new juggernaut?

 

[Leaddog]

Bryan Litz coined the name a long time ago. This is not something new. The bullets are still Berger's stock number 30418 and they are the tangent ogive 185 Long Range Boat Tail.

You folks are making way too much of this.

 

[XTR]

Glad to get the info on the name change. I'd read a Litz comment last yr calling the 185 the Juggernaut.

I started shooting this bullet last yr in F-TR. I find them to shoot very well and are forgiving of seating depth.

Personally I like this bullet, and if the Litz numbers are right (and I have no reason to doubt them) then it has better windage numbers that pretty much anything else at 1000 yards. I was doing load development at 200 with my new 30" barrel last month and shot 3 three shot groups in a row that measured less than .25MOA with different powder charges. I'm accustomed to sub .5 groups at 200, but watching ragged holes appear is kind of different, in a good way.

As for 190s, Personal opinion is if you are shooting a 308 then you're getting into too much bullet for the available powder, but that's just me.

 

[spclark]

Berger's tagging their new 308 185 gn OTM Tactical (30107) as Juggernaut for some reason, may lead to confusion.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Tactical%20Bullets.html

Powder Valley's showing the same product description on their Berger bullets page, while Brian's Appliedballisticsllc.com bullet data page:

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Bullets.html

- shows a Juggernaut as the older LRBT (30418) 185 gn item.

Even more confusing is that both products show an identical G7 BC of 0.283 & 1:12 recommended twist.

I e-mailed Brian this morning asking for clarification....

 

[jbpmidas]

I believe (that means I'm just thinking out loud) the Tactical and Target lines only differ in jacket thickness. The Tacticals and the LRBT's are the same design and therefore have the same BC's. Just like the Hunting and Target VLD's.

 

[spclark]

You might very well be correct sir!

If in fact that's the case it'd be useful to know that's the marketing model they've chosen to follow.

 

[Geminix3]

Hi all-

Resurrecting a zombie thread here, but this thread is the top result in Google results when trying to sort out differences between the 185's, so I figured I'd tack on a current bit of info.

According to Berger's current FAQ (7/2014), there is no physical difference between the bullets currently labeled 185 OTM Tactical and 185 Juggernaut Target:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/wp_super_faq/30418-vs-30107/

"These are simply different naming conventions that we use to clarify that the bullets can be used for each application. The military requires that OTM (Open Tip Match) bullets be clearly defined as OTM in the product name for clarification. There are no differences between these two bullets."

Just want to add this to the record. Love the info around here.

g++

 

[cmillard]

german, I hope you get The Rifleman's Journal back up and going. Loved that site!

 

[OldManTA]

In order to keep the Riflemans Journal site up and running it is necessary for Google to get some ad response. When you use the site click on the ad at the bottom.
Tom Alves

 

[savageshooter86]

I'm at 2750 fps with 30" 10 twist and this load is pure joy to shoot. Very close to sub 1/2 moa vert at 1000. This load could be tuned further, but I'm pleased with it now

Running Varget too with these

 

[Joe R]

German,
I want to thank you for all the writing that you do and your kindness to share all that you know about shooting. It is my opinion that your willingness to share your knowledge is a manifestation of your goodwill/love for your fellow man, and for that I commend you.

Over the past couple of years I've found your web site to be a real gold mine of information. Most of it way over my head, but very useful because it helps me think and sometimes understand this new sport that I'm into. The amount of work you've done is simply mind boggling and for that I applaud you.

Your post here with a link to your article about 1,000 yard .308 load development couldn't have been more timely for me. A real treasure.

May God bless you and your loved ones for all your kindness and hard work. Keep it up.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[jkl]

Rifleman's Journal is alive and well I just checked. As a friend of Germans I have been asking him to add something no matter how little. Just a smile and a nod. His shoulder problems never quite went away after surgery. Most everything has been sold but he will stop by the range from time to time and it is nice to have a stern soft voice behind you in the spotting scope. I sent him some results of the Arizona Teams at Camp Perry and there was a quick response to their success. German is still around in the shadows.

John