180 hybrid question

[BradY]

Hi guys

My current batch of 180gr hybrids seems to be quite consistent in BTO length mostly within 1-1.5 thousandths. I sorted them anyway for the purpose of this testing. OAL there seems to be a batch around 1.501" and another around 1.508-1.511"

Now pointing them unsorted from the box it's clear that the meplat size varies. Do some OAL sorting and it seems to stop this variation. So I can point the 1.501" ones and they end up about 1.505" and a moderate meplat reduction. The longer 1.508-1.511" batch point up tighter at the same die setting so it's clear to me also that they are getting pushed into the die further due to extra length.

What I'm wondering is, at this point is it better to adjust the die and try and get the shorter ones as close to the longer ones as possible in both meplat diameter and OAL but still keep the batches separate, Or is it best to trim them all back to even OAL and repoint again slightly to close the meplats to a nice size and also make all the bullets uniform in length to reduce bc variance?

Lastly, what has the more pronounced effect on increasing the bc on these 180 hybrids? The extra length gained from pointing or the closing of the meplat to reduce drag?

I have had a trimmer and pointer for a while, just never got around to using them seriously.

 

[ngb1787]

For what its worth i do not meplat, does not seem to make a difference in reality on the firing line. I am sure many will disagree but I do not notice a difference when comparing on the line at 1000yd.

 

[sfldiver]

Thanks for addressing this subject Brad - I recently started using 200g Bergers in a new rifle I just completed, so I'm very interested in this thread. It's been suggested to me that I should consider pointing my bullets. I'm currently performing load development with Berger 200.20x's, but I also have some 200 Hybrids that I plan on testing next. Would the 200.20X's benefit from the same pointing as would be completed with the standard hybrids? Also, for the moment, I exclusively shoot midrange F Class (600 yards) - Would my bullets benefit from pointing at 600yds or does the primary benefit come from 1000 yard shooting?

Sorry Brad - I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but it's a related subject.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

You've got them sorted right now - what's the problem?

I point each batch of bullets independently. I use a measuring tool to set the die in order to get the desired effect on the meplat.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

If you are pointing, you'll want to sort base-to-tip. Then point in batches.

EDIT: assuming you don't trim

 

[jsthntn247]

I just finished pointing and sorting 200-20x hybrids last night. Overall length varied by .015 in a lot of 500 bullets and I grouped them together in groups of .002 overall length. I then point each .002 group by setting the die up over and over for each group. If you don't you will over point the longer ones and more than likely buckle the jackets on them. For a group (say .712-.713) I will pick a bullet measuring .713 and turn the micrometer to zero, spin the top spindle in the die up, raise the ram push the bullet up in the die and turn the spindle down until it makes contact with the top of the bullet, then lower the ram removing the bullet, turn the micrometer to whatever my predetermined pointing setting is, for these bullets it was +.010 to close the meplat 50% and not damage the jacket. I would repeat for .714-.715, .716-.717....etc checking the first few bullets in each group to make sure the meplats look identical to the previous groups. After pointing I put all the groups in a pile and separate them by base to ogive in .001 groups.

 

[Ned Ludd]

No method is perfect, and each has certain caveats that are associated with it.

For example, if you trim bullets to the shortest OAL before pointing, bullet meplats will differ in diameter prior to pointing them, and potentially even after. They may also exhibit different amounts of shank in the neck at a specific seating depth, and may exhibit slight weight variance depending on how much they needed to be trimmed. Sorting by ogive after pointing using a tool such as Bob Green's comparator will help to address these issues.

I do not trim prior to pointing, I sort into OAL groups of about .0015" to .0020". That way, the pointing die micrometer need be set only once to point within a given Length Group (sorted) of bullets. The upside of this approach is that you don't have to trim, and it is very simple and easy. However, the quality and appearance of the meplats can affect the final product. The more jagged or uneven the meplats are, the less precise the OAL sorting process and the less uniform the points may be. OAL sorting is also an indirect method at best in terms of sorting by ogive. My feeing is that it is most common for the majority of bullet length variance to occur in the nose section, so OAL sorted probably improve ogive uniformity in sorted groups a little bit over straight out of the box. But it's not the same as using Bob's comparator.

The bottom line is that regardless of how you sort/point, there can be issues. No method is perfect in that regard. Length sorting bullet prior to pointing is the less time consuming approach. Trimming, pointing, and sorting by ogive is certainly the more rigorous and exacting approach, but it also takes more time and requires extra pieces of equipment. The critical question is whether you can actually shoot the difference between the two methods, which can be a very difficult question to quantify with any certainty.