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175 rdf 308 questions.

So I have been shooting 178 ELD M in my 308 FN SPR for F T/R midrange want to try the RDF. I tried a OCW with Varget from 41.4 to 44 in .4 steps and got no discernable node. Do I need to treat these like hybrids and do a jump test first? I dont care if these fit in the mag. I just loaded at the lands -0.010 jump.
Brass is Lapua
Primer is Cci BR4
2.332 Base to ogive
24" 12 turn factory barrel
 
So guess I'm going to do a rough seating depth test like Berger Hybrids and see where they group the best then do another OCW test.
100 views and not one person had a opinion?
 
Thinking 12 twist is a problem, they are pretty long bullets. And i have a hunch that your arent stablizing them or the 178gr ELDMs. According to stability calculator you are in the 1.1 to 1.3sg region. Need to make it to 1.5 minimum.

How are your results and scores?
 
I think the reason for the lack of "opinions" is that maybe people aren't sure where to begin. There are potentially a LOT of variables involved with your question, and not a lot of information (i.e. target images) on which to base any guesses. For starters, eric32 is correct - the Berger twist rate calculator recommends a minimum 11.5-twist barrel for that bullet using a velocity of 2650 fps, elevation of 500 ft, and a temperature of 65 degrees. At higher velocity, temperature, and/or elevation, stability would be better, but may still not provide a sufficient Sg to obtain the full intrinsic BC of that bullet. A 168 gr bullet such as Berger's 168 Hybrid, or a slightly shorter 175 bullet such as Berger's 175 OTM Tactical bullet would be better choices.

Next - you stated in your post that you "got no discernable node". What exactly does that mean? It might be helpful if you had some target images of the groups you shot. One possibility may be that you didn't notice much of a change in group size across the charge weight window of Varget you tested. However, it is not always the case that you will see groups shrink noticeably within an optimal charge weight window. What you really want to be looking for in an OCW test is two or three successive charge weight increments where the centerpoints of the groups don't change on the target (i.e. - same POI). IMO - 0.4 gr increments are a little too large for the best results with a .308 Win case. I would suggest using 0.3 gr, or even 0.2 gr increments. Once you have identified a stable charge weight in the middle of a window where POI changes on the target are minimal, then you tighten up the groups using seating depth.

It is possible that you might benefit from doing some preliminary seating depth optimization, if that will make the subsequent charge weight testing and analysis clearer. If you can't find any helpful information online or from Nosler about where their bullet might like to be seated, just do the test yourself. Using a charge weight closer to the lower end of your test range, I would try something like -.005", -.010", -.015", -.020". -.025", and .-030" (i.e. off the lands) using 3-shot groups, just as a preliminary seating depth optimization. I'd be surprised if you didn't find something in that window that looked better than the others. If necessary, you could try Berger's coarse seating approach for VLD bullets, which covers a much wider range https://bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/. Bear in mind that this is simply a very wide window (i.e. - very coarse) seating depth test. I personally would only try it if I couldn't find some seating depth that looked halfway decent in the much narrower range I listed above.

The problem with going to these lengths is that if your precision is suffering primarily because you are under-spinning the 175 RDFs in a 12-twist barrel, none of these approaches will necessarily help improve the results you're getting. So I would keep in mind that using a shorter 168 or 175 gr bullet that doesn't require more than a 12-twist may be your best bet. The two Berger options I listed above are both relatively forgiving to load and have very good BCs for their weight class.
 
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I have used the 175 RDF in 6 different 308's 2 AR10's and 4 Bolt rifles. I have a Rem 700 VSSF 1-12 twist I bought in 1995 HS stock. I have found the RDF likes to jump. I have let it jump anywhere between .025 to .100 seems like .035 to .050 is the best in the VSSF with 41.3 grains of ArComp BR2 primer in Peterson Brass. Have not speed tested this rifle yet. It has been good so far at shooting 1/2" groups 5 shot at 100 yards when I do my part. My other rifles 2 Rem 5r's Gen 2 11.25 twist shoot about the same. My Ruger Precision 1-10 20" barrel will shoot a NCC 175 better than the RDF . If you try ArComp start out with about 39.5 grains and work your way.
 
Thank you all for the responses. I will try to answer any questions.
Target Pictures- I didnt take any. I always have before but the target was so random that I just trashed it. At no place did the groups align with vertical. I did get one good group of about .45 moa at 100 yards but both the groups around it printed differnt POI about .7 moa higher and lower. I will definitely take pictures next time.
178 ELD M shot bug holes and got me into the 195+ range in F- T/R mid range at 200, 300, and 500.
I am willing to try the 168 hybrids but I got 200 of these from a friend as a gift. With the price point and BC I figured I'd give em a shot.
I will try the seating depth test first at the load that gave best groups and then do another OCW test. If they dont work I'll try the 168 hybrids or the 2155 sierra.
I also have Re15 and 4064 powders on hand that I may try but I dont want to just waste powder on a bullet that has a low chance of shooting. I knew I was on the edge twist wise but the ELD M worked so good.
 
From mike06's post, it sounds like the RDFs like to be jumped a fair bit, but will work in a 12-twist barrel. I've heard similar comments about other RDF bullets. Maybe a quick and dirty seating depth test at -.025", -.030", and -.035" will help produce better grouping and allow you to get more useful info from the OCW testing.
 
Just got done loading these at .015, .020, .025 and .030 jump. Going to try to sneak out this weekend and shoot em. If that doesn't work I'll try bigger jumps.
 
I haven't forgotten about this, just with our torrential rain I haven't been able to get out. I will update when I do.
 

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