17 rem vs 204ruger
- Thread starter matthias
- Start date
Just my opinions;
Why move away from the 223? It's far more versatile with more available bullet options then either the 204 or 17 Rem.
The 204 Ruger as by far more superior ballistic wise than the 17 cal. In my 204's (Heavy barrel R700 (x2) and CZ527 American) I can see hits through the scope from a portable bench. Naturally, the heavier the rifle the less movement.
Within the 20 cal family, the 204 Ruger has faster velocities than the 20 Tactical & 20 Practical; but not by much. What's nice about those two calibers (which I don't have) is they make very similar velocity to the 204 with less powder which should make your barrel last longer and, you can use your existing 223 brass for either of these calibers.
A family of cartridges that are really fun to shoot are the "Fireball" calibers which includes the 17 FB/17-MK IV, 221 FB and 20 Var-Targ [VT]. I have the 221FB & 20VT and you can shoot either of these all day and not worry about the barrel heating up. My 20VT shoots very close to my 204 Ruger with only 18-19 grains of powder.
Hope this helps,
Why move away from the 223? It's far more versatile with more available bullet options then either the 204 or 17 Rem.
The 204 Ruger as by far more superior ballistic wise than the 17 cal. In my 204's (Heavy barrel R700 (x2) and CZ527 American) I can see hits through the scope from a portable bench. Naturally, the heavier the rifle the less movement.
Within the 20 cal family, the 204 Ruger has faster velocities than the 20 Tactical & 20 Practical; but not by much. What's nice about those two calibers (which I don't have) is they make very similar velocity to the 204 with less powder which should make your barrel last longer and, you can use your existing 223 brass for either of these calibers.
A family of cartridges that are really fun to shoot are the "Fireball" calibers which includes the 17 FB/17-MK IV, 221 FB and 20 Var-Targ [VT]. I have the 221FB & 20VT and you can shoot either of these all day and not worry about the barrel heating up. My 20VT shoots very close to my 204 Ruger with only 18-19 grains of powder.
Hope this helps,
With my Cooper M21/204R compared to my CZ527/17R with a light custom barrel there is a significant increase in muzzle blast and rifle upset going to the 204.
Yes weight and muzzle brakes can make a huge difference when it comes to self spotting.
I've found less is more. OT a bit but 20-221AI is one awesome little round with very little noise or rifle upset and self spotting is easy in a 527 with a medium heavy barrel. 32's going 3700 fps made it easy to keep all shots centered on a 10" plate at 400Y today. My friend with his 17R carbine does the same with 30 Golds but he's using 21.6 grains of powder and I'm using 18.8.
If you have your dope down well, and know the distance, as well as have decent wind reading abilities, that extra 300 fps doesn't make a big difference, like a click or two.
What I hate is quick throat erosion and short barrel life and cleaning a badly coppered up barrel which hot chamberings give.
Relying on a smith to do barrel work, that's about $700 bucks to come up with sooner than one would hope with overbore cartridges.
Yes weight and muzzle brakes can make a huge difference when it comes to self spotting.
I've found less is more. OT a bit but 20-221AI is one awesome little round with very little noise or rifle upset and self spotting is easy in a 527 with a medium heavy barrel. 32's going 3700 fps made it easy to keep all shots centered on a 10" plate at 400Y today. My friend with his 17R carbine does the same with 30 Golds but he's using 21.6 grains of powder and I'm using 18.8.
If you have your dope down well, and know the distance, as well as have decent wind reading abilities, that extra 300 fps doesn't make a big difference, like a click or two.
What I hate is quick throat erosion and short barrel life and cleaning a badly coppered up barrel which hot chamberings give.
Relying on a smith to do barrel work, that's about $700 bucks to come up with sooner than one would hope with overbore cartridges.
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
I held off a long time before moving to the 20's. Fear of fouling, new smaller cleaning rods, etc. But that proved to be a non issue and now I have several. But to me the 20P is preferred if high volume shooting is the end. I still like my 204R and 20 Bobcat.
Now I enjoy the 17 HMR's, but still have avoided the 17 Remington. Same concerns, even skinnier cleaning rod and concerns over fouling. But I recognize I may be missing the boat. So I certainly don't have experience to suggest one over the other.
Regarding seeing your hits, that is a requirement for me. I have to spot for myself, and I must see if the puff of dust is upwind or downwind of the dog. But even with a 223 Cooper - which is a fairly light rifle, all I need to do is make sure I have solid contact with the rifle and it isn't an issue. On the 204R it is just easier. When I shoot the AR platform I use an A2 stock and use the 3.5 pound lead weight in the cavity. The balance is terrible, but the rifle doesn't shift when firing.
With some patience, I have been able to find new Win or Rem 204R brass at very competitive prices.
Now I enjoy the 17 HMR's, but still have avoided the 17 Remington. Same concerns, even skinnier cleaning rod and concerns over fouling. But I recognize I may be missing the boat. So I certainly don't have experience to suggest one over the other.
Regarding seeing your hits, that is a requirement for me. I have to spot for myself, and I must see if the puff of dust is upwind or downwind of the dog. But even with a 223 Cooper - which is a fairly light rifle, all I need to do is make sure I have solid contact with the rifle and it isn't an issue. On the 204R it is just easier. When I shoot the AR platform I use an A2 stock and use the 3.5 pound lead weight in the cavity. The balance is terrible, but the rifle doesn't shift when firing.
With some patience, I have been able to find new Win or Rem 204R brass at very competitive prices.
Shot .17’s for years, shot a Mach IV when Kimber was first to chamber it, still shoot a 17CCM and bunch of wildcats down to .14.
My #1 TAC 20 shoots 40Vmax’s (bc285) at 3920fps behind R10X down a 26” Lilja on a Dakota Predator usually in the mid.200’s.
Bonifide 500yard woodchuck rifle....your Mach IV ain’t doing that.
I’ve pushed 25’s to 4250fps in cooler weather but in hot weather, most of the best powders can get really spikey and .2 grains of powder can get you into trouble.
I have 7 different .22 cf chamberings, shot 17’s....nothing beats the 20’s especially for being easy to live with.
You’re not pushing 30’s at 4100 in anything short of an overbore barrel eater.
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For the particular gun that you are using, I would be inclined to go with the 17 Rem. Have several of both, but I think that action would be better served in the 17 Rem. even though I personally prefer the 204 most of the time anymore as being more versatile. If you are willing to go a different route, I would consider the 20VT as was discussed previously. Less powder, recoil and warm up.
A .17Rem against a .204Ruger ain't a fair fight, the bigger case most always wins! A quick glance will tell ya what kind of advantage the .204 is gonna allow, and the .17Rem is no kinda 'hotrod', nor is the Mach IV...
Can tell ya though, shooting my .17Predator side by side with my .20TAC, that little 30gr going 4085fps eats the .20's lunch!!! (39@3875). And it's a bit more fair comparison, as both are made from same parent case, therefore much closer in capacity...
For volume shooting, I'd take the .20 cal. But, for 'one shot wonders', a spooled up .172 will raise eyebrows in both trajectory & killing ability!
Want even more 'fair' comparison? Take a .204Ruger up against a necked down .17/204. Pick your favorite .20cal poison pill, and run it against a 30gr .172 cal @ 41-4200 (with ease). From the same length barrel, the .20cal loses the trajectory contest, every time...
Can tell ya though, shooting my .17Predator side by side with my .20TAC, that little 30gr going 4085fps eats the .20's lunch!!! (39@3875). And it's a bit more fair comparison, as both are made from same parent case, therefore much closer in capacity...
For volume shooting, I'd take the .20 cal. But, for 'one shot wonders', a spooled up .172 will raise eyebrows in both trajectory & killing ability!
Want even more 'fair' comparison? Take a .204Ruger up against a necked down .17/204. Pick your favorite .20cal poison pill, and run it against a 30gr .172 cal @ 41-4200 (with ease). From the same length barrel, the .20cal loses the trajectory contest, every time...
Reckon you better, since Hornady lists G1 for a 40Vmax at .275:
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/20-cal-204-40-gr-v-max-250#!/
So, ya take a 30gr Kindler Gold with nearly the same G1 b.c. Of .270, and push it 200fps faster from the .172 caliber...
Now, study us up and tell us which one shoots flatter & bucks wind better???
Like I said, I've shot the aforementioned cartridges of mine, literally side by side. So, I've got no vested interest in one, of the other. I just call the winner as I saw it, firsthand...shooting both to 550yds.
So, again... if ya compare a .172 & .204 of near equal capacity, the lil .17 is gonna make ya take notice. But, if ya cherry pick a dink .17 to compare against a large .20, of course the .20 is gonna outperform it!
Good shooting
OP, asked which to build, and why. Then, someone resurrected a two year old thread & shifted the topic, to a ballistics comparison...
Regardless, of whether addressing the initial "why?", or the recent thread bump outta nowhere, it'd have been foolhardy to not point out case capacity disparity as the 'elephant in the room' as a deciding factor.
Likewise, we all know that, at equal velocity, the higher b.c. boolit wins, every time, all the time. Which is precisely why necking down a .204 will actually improve its ballistic potential, over the parent case...
Run a 40gr .204 @ 3920, and a 30gr .172 @ 4250, from same parent case & same length barrel. And, the .172 30gr has a smudge better b.c., at that. It's painfully obvious which is gonna fly mo'flatta. Should be, anyway?
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