17 Killer Bee

[danny]

I saw this thread and had a grin, Eric Mayer also produced a T shirt for the 17 & 20 Killer Bee, I'm wearing my 20 Killer Bee at the moment.
I would like to build a 20 Killer Bee but the shortage of 218 Bee brass isn't reassuring and the price of what is available is eye watering and discouraging to build anything on the 218 Bee case.

Saying that I have a 17AB, 17 HeBee and a 218 Bee, here is the 20 Killer Bee logo and font

Kiwi

View attachment 1633927

The logo is enough for me, but the 218 Bee brass unavailability put the kibosh on that idea.

Danny

 

[rayh]

They had a big server crash that deleted all the real early great data. I always thought that had some of the best info. There were a lot of the die in wool wildcatters back then. Sadly in the later years a lot of the old timers were moving on to other shooting forms.

 

[Kiwishooter]

They had a big server crash that deleted all the real early great data. I always thought that had some of the best info. There were a lot of the die in wool wildcatters back then. Sadly in the later years a lot of the old timers were moving on to other shooting forms.

There was still a lot of info on there before it went down last year, is there any hope of getting that data back online?

 

[drewh]

I think the original crash was around 1996. I remember all the restored users had the same start date when they got it back up. I have tried to contact both Jim and Ken Saubier through various channels and have gotten no response. That is a shame because there is a lot of information contained in those posts.

 

[rayh]

There was still a lot of info on there before it went down last year, is there any hope of getting that data back online?

There was a lot of good data, I always learned something. As Drew said Jim and Ken are busy and I've never heard of anyone hearing whether they wanted to sell or whatever. Mr Reed would have been a good fit I thought. I have no idea how it works but to keep a site's name, you have to pay to do that?? If so then just maybe Jim is keeping it in hip pocket for when they retire before bringing it back. Jim and his Dad shot bench rest at our club. A couple of us put on a Saubier Small Caliber shoot for a number of years. We ran around 15-18 shooters. It was free and we gave everyone a pulled pork dinner in the evening. I miss those days.

 

[thekriebles]

...A couple of us put on a Saubier Small Caliber shoot for a number of years. We ran around 15-18 shooters. It was free and we gave everyone a pulled pork dinner in the evening. I miss those days.

Those were excellent events. Your time and efforts were greatly appreciated. The commaraderie was always enjoyed by all. Thanks again for those memorable times!

 

[Stormbringer]

I've mostly used 4198 in my Ackley Bee. Tried some Lil' Gun but saw pressure spikes and drop in accuracy. I want to say 12.5 grains of 4198 with 25 grain bullets and 13.0 with 20's. I use CCI 400 primers. Velocity is typically 3500 and 3750.

 

[danny]

I've mostly used 4198 in my Ackley Bee. Tried some Lil' Gun but saw pressure spikes and drop in accuracy. I want to say 12.5 grains of 4198 with 25 grain bullets and 13.0 with 20's. I use CCI 400 primers. Velocity is typically 3500 and 3750.

What is the typical 17 Ackley Bee velocities that you get with 20 and 25 grain bullets?

Danny

 

[chuckshooter]

I run AA1680 in my three 20 killer bees. the 1st two, I run 218bee brass necked down. the last one, I use starline 32-20 formed. since I'm going all the way down to .20 caliber, I skip using the 218 bee die and the walls of the case stay formed better. they do end up about .030 shorter, but it's irrelevant as it's all wildcating anyway. I have backed the velocities down to around 3500 fps which serves me well and saves the brass. three of these are killer bees

 

[danny]

I run AA1680 in my three 20 killer bees. the 1st two, I run 218bee brass necked down. the last one, I use starline 32-20 formed. since I'm going all the way down to .20 caliber, I skip using the 218 bee die and the walls of the case stay formed better. they do end up about .030 shorter, but it's irrelevant as it's all wildcating anyway. I have backed the velocities down to around 3500 fps which serves me well and saves the brass. three of these are killer beesView attachment 1634493

Ok,
Thanks. Here is a different question so I can see where 17 Ackley Bee fits in compared to others. What do you think your typical maximum velocity would be if you were not backing down to run them conservatively?

Danny

 

[chester999]

Ok,
Thanks. Here is a different question so I can see where 17 Ackley Bee fits in compared to others. What do you think your typical maximum velocity would be if you were not backing down to run them conservatively?

Danny

The Sauders book show loads from 3051 to 3772 fps. Most accurate load Rel 7 @ 3475, 4198 good accuracy @ 3444 to 3521.

 

[danny]

The Sauders book show loads from 3051 to 3772 fps. Most accurate load Rel 7 @ 3475, 4198 good accuracy @ 3444 to 3521.

That is with 20 grain projectiles?

Danny

 

[chuckshooter]

The Sauders book show loads from 3051 to 3772 fps. Most accurate load Rel 7 @ 3475, 4198 good accuracy @ 3444 to 3521.

RL 7 got up to and beyond 3772 fps, but 1680 is probably the best powder in a powder thrower I have ever used. very consistent. when you reload 13k rounds a year, you have to make some sacrifices. plus it was available at the time. who is Sauders? 32vmax bullets, .020 KILLER BEE

 

[chester999]

That is with 20 grain projectiles?

Danny

Almost all loads in the book are for 25gr bullets. Remington and Hornady were about the only mass produced bullets at that time. Remington were very hard to get by the time I got into the game. The only way to try different weights was to make your own or trim and re-point. Did a lot of that.

 

[chester999]

Dick Saunders, Manchester, IA (Well-known 17-caliber experimenter and developer.)

 

[chester999]

Dick Saunders, Manchester, IA (Well-known 17-caliber experimenter and developer.)

I cut and pasted this from the acknowledgment in an article on this site pertaining to the 17.

 

[chuckshooter]

I don't do 17 because my bore scope doesn't do 17's