17 Fireball

[tripcrow]

Has anyone any experience with this cartridge?

I have an A&B barreled 221 Fireball on a Savage 12BV that is heavy enough to stay on target during recoil at close to medium range with 40 Vmaxs. Something that my old sporter 221 Savage 12F-S wasn’t able to do on those close shots. But there’s no way to use a Savage action as a real Fireball repeater that I know of. The case is so short the ejector causes it to slap against the lug race spending its spring load and the case just lays in the port instead of ejecting. I landed up taking the ejector out and now load 3 rounds in the mag and pick out the fired case by hand.

But I see Remington has some new 700s & a 7 in 17 Fireball and they look to be honest repeaters. Anyone have one yet? Would any 700 or 7 with a 223 boltface cycle a 17 or 221 Fireball round or did they do something different with the actions used for the 17 Fireball? Any other actions out there that would work as a repeater? How about a 223 Winchester Heavy Varmint’s action? A Tika 223 varmint action?

I’m guessing the 17 Fireball with a 17g-20g bullet would have so little recoil that it’d make a low recoil stay on target light close range groundhog rifle. And that’s something that would be very usefull. I’m on the verge of getting a stainless synthetic 17HMR despite the fact that it’s a rimfire and would have less killing power than a 17 Fireball.

 

[tuck2]

The 17 HM2 17 Gr bullet MV is 2100 ft/sec, The 17 HMR 17 Gr bullet has a MV of 2550 ft/sec. The 17 Fireball 20 Gr bullet has a MV of 4000 ft/sec. I have owned a 17 HM2 and 17 HMR rifles since they first came out and this past spring got a Remington 700 CDL SF Limited Edition 17 Fireball. I have not started to reloading the Fireball ammo. I have not found any 17 Gr bullets for the 17 center fire rifle but 20, 25, and 30 Gr bullets are available. I have read that Remington is not going to sell empty 17 Fireball cases untill 2008 so with a some luck I will have rifle ready for next spring prairie dog shooting. So for I have shot over 3000 prairie dogs with the rim fire 17s. I use the 17 HM2 for shots out obout 80 Yds where the 17 Gr bullet has about 100 ft/lb energy and the 17 HMR for shot out to about 150 Yds where the 17 Gr bullet has about 100 ft/lb energy. I have used a Rem 700 LS 221 Fireball rifle for shots past 150 Yds useing 40 Gr V-Max bullets,18.6 Gr Re 7 powder and Fed 205 M primes .The MV was 2980 ft/sec with this reloaded 40 Gr bullet. . I had to glass bed the action with one inch of the barrel, free float the rest of the barrel and adjust the trigger pull down to three pounds to get it to shoot under one inch 100 Yd groups.

 

[tripcrow]

Hey tuck2, have you tried making 17 Fireball from 221 Fireball brass? How about good 223 brass? Is that Remington action any different for the 17 Fireball than it’d be for a 223?

I have a couple farmers that want me to hunt some of their fields that are close to houses and I'm thinking a 17 cal bullet doesn't have much in the way of pieces to to go flying all over after it hits something.

My A&B Savage is definitely under an inch and all I’ve ever tried is LIl’gun because it shoots so much faster than any other powder and 40 Vmaxs because they kill so good for being so little.

Check these links out:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_5_49/ai_99145175/pg_1
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/reloads/0505/

 

[AckleymanII]

Tripcrow, I have seen the 25g Remington and 25g Berger skip across the ground after going through a fat p. dog!

Don't shoot in the direction of houses or you may kill someone!

good luck!

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

I have nothing against the cartridge or anyone who owns one but what can it do that the .17 Remington centerfire can't ?? And what can either do that a .22/250 can't do...?? I know we all love new toys and we all know the difference between men and boys but I just can't see any real advantage....enlighten me!!

 

[tripcrow]

If you do a lot of your groundhog hunting on your own it’s good to have a cartridge that’ll allow you to stay on target for the hit or miss. I’ve tried a 221 Fireball sporter and there were a lot of times it just jumped enough that there was no telling if you had a lethal hit, a wound, or a clean miss. Especially in high grass or crop up close. Of course it helps a lot to grip it real tight and/or lock in the bipods if you’re not shooting it offhand. But it just ain’t going to happen all the time. Now with a 221 Fireball heavy barrel on a heavy gun, like a 10 lb Savage, you get to watch the whole show even at close range almost all the time. You need a couple hundred yards to do that consistently with a 223,tried a 223 first). You need a spotter for a 22-250 under 400-500 yards. But 12lbs of gun, Fireball or not, is too heavy to carry while sneaking around for a few hours. Hence the niche for a light gun & cartridge combo with next to zero recoil. The rimfire 17HMR fills that criteria better than a 22lr but still travels at such a slow speed that it is likely to ricochet, has a fairly limited range, and because of its velocity makes using the larger 17 cal bullets more desirable for PA groundhogs. The 17 Fireball doing over 4Kfps is much more likely to have its bullet blow apart in tiny pieces and all that extra speed allows you to use the smaller 17g bullets with much more killing power and range than the HMR.

Another big advantage of the Fireball over the bigger guns is the relatively low noise. With only 16 or so grains of powder the Fireball’s crack from 150 yards away sounds to a mother watching her kids, to be coming from just across the street. Not like the 243s right outside her kids’ bedroom boom.

Since moving to SC PA from the eastern part of the state 4 yrs back, I’ve been trying to settle in on the right rifles,even tried a 14” 223 TC Contender last year) for these local groundhogs. This area has a variety of different types of hog hunting. So like for deer where a guy might have a light short fast rifle for in close cover, a general purpose deer rifle, and a long range gun, groundhogs here can be best hunted with at least 3 rifles. A light carry gun for close in and sneaking around,17 Fireball?), a medium range heavy rifle,221 Fireball works great to 250-300 yards), & a long range gun,Still far from sure on what’d be best here. Leaning towards a 22BR with a brake for those 300+ yard places. Figuring the brake would be OK here because long range hunting is usually done farther away from houses making noise from a brake less of a consideration. But then you gotta figure too that long range hunting is usually a more social hunt done with a buddy where you can take turns spotting for one another.). It’d also help if all 3 groundhog guns were stainless synthetic because there’s even less time to waste caring for a wet blued gun in the summer than during deer season. While hog hunting is often just a few hour affair thrown into part of the day. Deer hunting is more often the main part of the day and gets more time set aside for it. And stainless also because you don’t want to be running patches down the bore of your hog rifle when you know you won’t be getting a fowling shot before the next hunt.

So while it wouldn’t be considered excessive for a guy to have 3 deer rifles to hunt just 10 days out of the year. It isn’t crazy to have 3 specialized groundhog guns to use the 30, 40, 50, or more times they’ll see action from March through September. Anyway that’s the stuff I tell myself to justify spending money in search of the perfect groundhog battery.

 

[457ciSBC]

Has anyone any experience with this cartridge?

I have the wildcat, the 17 Mach4 and it is EXACTLY what you are looking for. It works with only 15.5-19 grs of powder, it's very accurate and has very little recoil. I have a 25.5" K&P barrel and my velocities equal the 17 Rem.

Mike

 

[tuck2]

Hornady Handbook Of Cartridge Reloading Volume 1 6th Edition page 76 has the reloading data on the 17 Mach IV round. The Hodgdon Powder Co web site has the reloading data for the Rem 17 Fireball. I have read that a seperate die is need to form the 221 Fireball case before running the case into the 17 Fireball reloading die. I m going to wait untill I can get the Rem cases in 2008. I may get a box of factorey ammo to site in the rifle. There is very little difference between the 17 Fireball and the 17 Mach IV rounds.

 

[24kshooter]

Pros: longer barrel life, less expensive to shoot, less noise and easy o brass. Cons: 200 - 300 fps at max pressure

 

[joey65746]

how is the 17 on them cat hides catshooter looking for some thing that dont blow them in half like a 22 250 will