168 SMK for .300 WM- so a guy says

[DavisTN]

**

I had an older gentleman who seemed to know his stuff tell me that he has had great success out to 1,500 yds with 168 SMK's in his .300. His rifle is by no standard "precision" and mine is on the way up.

I have loaded several variations of powder and charges with nothing to support this mans' claim, to date. I know SMK's hold a decent reputation pretty much everywhere, but I am sometimes getting greater than .75 MOA at 75 yards. I have loaded them, starting at 70 gr H4831 thru 73.75 gr H4831 @ .25 gr increments in 10 rnds/gr groups and still not decided if there is one better or worse shooting to about 500 yds. I switched to IMR 4831 and have had similar results with a bit tighter groups at the bottom of the spectrum with 72 gr. Also worked with different primers, brass, and seating depths.. Similar results.

My question is.. Should I dump the pill entirely and try Bergers (haven't tried to date), or continue with a different approach? I shoot a 1/10 barrel. Are these rounds too light and should I move to 180's before I move to different chasers? I am perplexed... and a little pissed. I would really appreciate any and all information including anticipated MV, BC, etc etc and opinions. I am 23 and on a relatively fixed budget at this time. The sooner I can get a round narrowed down in my .300, the better. Current setup- Winchester M70 with 1/10 twist bull, McMillan varminter, Viper PST, Harris bi-pod, 0 MOA rail. This is also my primary deer rifle. I am using Hornandy 150 SPBT's for whitetail, but that is an entire different discussion. I just want to punch things out to 1,000 and be able to repeat. Again, any and all input is greatly appreciated. This is a great sport, and I know that I have a long way to go. My best result to date was at the end of my box with a 2 round group of 1.08" @ 547 yrds with Remington cases, federal 215 primers, IMR 4831 (72 grains) and a 3-9x50 Bushnell "Legend" (no windage/elevation; prior to scope upgrade).

 

[the punisher]

My 300 WM loves 208 A-Max`s with R-22 pushing it. Also it will shot 150 gr sp and 180 Ballistic tips well, never really tried 168 SMK....

 

[bheadboy]

all bbl and chambers are diff, that said, my Hart bbl 300wm on a tweeked 700 would shoot the 168's into .300 at 100 and under 1" at 300.

i found h4831 the best for my rig, used 9 1/2, r/p tuned brass. RL 22 was a close 2nd powder.

velocity was in the 3100+ from a 26" bbl.

Bob

 

[bozo699]

The 168 SMK is a awesome 600 yard bullet, but it won't stay stabilized out to 1000 if your going to go with 168's go with the Berger, If I was shooting out to 1K with a 300wm "and I do" I would shoot the 210 Berger and I do! and my custom hunting rifle will hold 5 in 5 at 1K more shots then that and it opens way up but if it takes more then that you better give up, I have taken coyotes at 1237 yards with this load,...210 Berger, Norma brass, 215 primers and 70 grains of RL-22, this load is too hot!! for RWS brass and may be for some other brands, the Nosler and Norma will take it though, or at least it does in mine, load at your own risk if you you use my load!!
Wayne

 

[Rtheurer]

Bozo
Kinda have to call you out on the 168 SMK not stabalizing at 1000 yards with a 300Win Mag pushing them at 3100fps plus. 308 yes but a 300 win mag...not a problem. Better choices yes as you point out two really good ones.
RussT

 

[DavisTN]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I was really hoping that I would be able to produce a good load with the 168 SMK's. They are cheap (by comparison) to the 180 Nosler's I was loading way back. I am in the process of working a 180 SMK load to see if they will fare any better. If not, on to the Bergers. The big idea was to work up a relatively light target load with the 168 SMK and then try to work it over to a hunting load (SGK) when rifle season kicks up. Killing TN whitetail with a 210... HAHA. I did shoot a deer with a 19_ something gr from a .300 WBY mag when I was about 13. Hunting a huge field, and the deer chose to camp out 45 yards in front of me. The bullet didn't expand, and shockingly very little meat was ruined. Sold that rifle and got this one shortly after.

So far my game plan is:
- shoot the rest of my loaded 168's
- load some 180 SMK's
-if that doesn't work, grease the recoil pad and load some 210 Bergers.
-if I am too incompetent to get a suitable new load, I'll just bow hunt

Thanks again for the contributions. This has been an excellent resource for the short time that I have been here.

 

[Win94ae]

Bozo
Kinda have to call you out on the 168 SMK not stabalizing at 1000 yards with a 300Win Mag pushing them at 3100fps plus. 308 yes but a 300 win mag...not a problem. Better choices yes as you point out two really good ones.
RussT

I agree with RussT, with a ballistic coefficient of 0.462, 1000 yards can be reached with 30-06 velocities. Wind-drift is what would make me think twice about using that bullet, even with the 30-06.

 

[bozo699]

Bozo
Kinda have to call you out on the 168 SMK not stabalizing at 1000 yards with a 300Win Mag pushing them at 3100fps plus. 308 yes but a 300 win mag...not a problem. Better choices yes as you point out two really good ones.
RussT

Russ,
You are absolutely correct, I knew he was talking .300 but I was thinking .308 for some reason with the 168's I still wouldn't use them though with all the much better bullet choices.
Wayne.

 

[Rtheurer]

Bozo

Your are also very correct lots better options for the same price in bullt even. Just moving up to the 175gr SMK would be a better option.. and of course the good bergers you mentioned in your first post.
For 1000 yard target shooting that is... We got kinda off topic from the OP so I appoligize for that.

Davis
If you are planning on shooting Deer with these bullets you may consider the VLD line from Berger vs the SMK. I hear of wicked performance from these bullets on deer. I cant give first hand knowledge on the big fellas but do shoot the 95gr VLD in a 243AI for Yotes but that is a whole nether topic.

One of my favorite Deer bullets is the 165gr Game king and the 165 Nosler Balistic tip in 30 cal..

Best of luck to you what ever direction you go.
RT

 

[bheadboy]

RT,

i agree with you on the Gameking up to 300-500 as a great game bullet and very accurate in my 300wm, 280ai and 7-08ai, however given the bc of the nosler bt and my and myson's experience with them at 300+ one shot and drop.

The bt is deadly and the bc of it vs the gk holds upmuch better at thelonger range

Bob

 

[oldhoward]

Hi If I were strictly shooting target at 1000 yards I would go with the 210 Bergers as suggested above. If I were shooting deer or other similar game, I would shoot 165 Nosler partitions with 70 to 71 grains Imr 4350 with a standard Rem 91/2 primer. This shoots very well in most 300 I own usually under .5 at 100 yards. I have killed deer at 6/10 of a mile with this load(pickup truck clocked) and it is very effective. I also think but can't prove that the 165 partitions fly better than the ballistics show on paper. Just my observation.

oldhoward

 

[bozo699]

I have to disagree on the partitions for deer, elk but not deer, and I also have never found them to be more accurate then a ballistic tip but each rifle and shooter are different so I am not saying it isn't true just not my findings and I have shot a lot of both. For moderate ranges on deer,.... 500 yards or so ,...NOT elk!! almost any bullet will do including the 168 match king, there are bullets I prefer for that app though, Hornaday interlocks are cheap, deadly, and accurate, so are the game kings, and as of recent I have had good luck with Nosler Accubonds and they will work on elk also, and at much further ranges , but they cost more also.. Ballistic tips, V-Max and other plastic tipped thin jacketed bullets are not good big game choices as far as I am concerned and especially at .300wm velocities, if you hit a rib or shoulder blade by accident,...( not hard to do ) they will grenade on impact and a huge entrance hole is created and a possible wounded animal, I have seen it more then once! IMHO buy target bullets for target shooting, and quality hunting bullets of the right design for the animal being hunted for hunting!
Wayne.

 

[jsthntn247]

Midway has some bonded 180 grain blemished bullets for sale right now for half off. They are blemished accubonds Better jump on them while they last. Try them with a stiff load of that H4831 about .015 off the lands and I'll bet you'll be happy. I have some 208 Amax's loaded up to try on a Mississippi whitetail this fall, a 500 + yard head shot is my goal.

 

[dansig]

Anything lighter than 185gn just doesn't work in my .300WM, the 185gn Lapua Scenar is a great bullet, does .3 MOA at 500m, havn't tried it at longer range, and the 230gn Berger Hybrid is awesome at long range with BC 0.743.

you really should try quality bullets instead of using those cheap Sierra bullets, they are fine for short range practice and varmints but they are not precision bullets.

 

[bozo699]

Anything lighter than 185gn just doesn't work in my .300WM, the 185gn Lapua Scenar is a great bullet, does .3 MOA at 500m, havn't tried it at longer range, and the 230gn Berger Hybrid is awesome at long range with BC 0.743.

you really should try quality bullets instead of using those cheap Sierra bullets, they are fine for short range practice and varmints but they are not precision bullets.

It's ridiculous statements like this why I took a long break from here! Sierra probably has more competition wins under there belt then any other mass produced bullet and probably any bullet period!! there is nothing junk about Sierra bullets, I have won quite a few envelopes with money in them with Sierra 107's, several different barrels and other things I have won with Sierra bullets, I now use Burger bullets for competition but wouldn't be scared to use Sierra if need to be and I wouldn't be at the bottom of the list on score or group I can tell you that! I also have won money with 190, and 220 grain .30 cal bullets.
Wayne.

 

[dansig]

Anything lighter than 185gn just doesn't work in my .300WM, the 185gn Lapua Scenar is a great bullet, does .3 MOA at 500m, havn't tried it at longer range, and the 230gn Berger Hybrid is awesome at long range with BC 0.743.

you really should try quality bullets instead of using those cheap Sierra bullets, they are fine for short range practice and varmints but they are not precision bullets.

It's ridiculous statements like this why I took a long break from here! Sierra probably has more competition wins under there belt then any other mass produced bullet and probably any bullet period!! there is nothing junk about Sierra bullets, I have won quite a few envelopes with money in them with Sierra 107's, several different barrels and other things I have won with Sierra bullets, I now use Burger bullets for competition but wouldn't be scared to use Sierra if need to be and I wouldn't be at the bottom of the list on score or group I can tell you that! I also have won money with 190, and 220 grain .30 cal bullets.
Wayne.

so why exactly did you start using bergers if you won everything using Sierra bullets ?

the mass production is the problem, quality control isn't as good and tolerances are greater than in custom bullets, and there are no tolerances in competition shooting, either you win or you don't !


I am actually stating the same thing as you.. Sierras are fine, but Berger are just better for competition

 

[bozo699]

Dansig,
Do you think walt custom makes his bullets or are they stamped out on machines like Sierra uses? I am using Berger right now because this barrel liked them but I have 1000's of 107's and I will use them again. I have to measure each and every Burger bullet both by bearing surface and length or they wouldn't be competitive.
Wayne.

 

[M14AMU]

The Sierra 168 BTHP is a fantastic bullet for which it was designed aka 300 meter International competition and it has set records in all disciplines for which it was designed! It IS NOT a long range bullet because it has a 13 degree boat-tail and any projectile with this degree BT has the same drag function as a flat-based bullet! Rather than the 180 Sierra use the 175 gr. and you'll be very pleased! Sierra was winning matches with their bullets when many here were still crapping in their diapers or were only a gleam in their Dad's eye!!

 

[bozo699]

The Sierra 168 BTHP is a fantastic bullet for which it was designed aka 300 meter International competition and it has set records in all disciplines for which it was designed! It IS NOT a long range bullet because it has a 13 degree boat-tail and any projectile with this degree BT has the same drag function as a flat-based bullet! Rather than the 180 Sierra use the 175 gr. and you'll be very pleased! Sierra was winning matches with their bullets when many here were still crapping in their diapers or were only a gleam in their Dad's eye!!

SPOT ON!!!!!
Wayne.

 

[DavisTN]

Thanks to everybody for the valuable input. I went back to the drawing board with the 168 SMK. Changed the primers to Remington 9 1/\2's and cleaned the PISS out of my brass. Trimmed to 2.615 and seated the bullets to a COAL 3.430 (just back from the lands for my rifle). I loaded ten round groups in .5 grain increments from 68 grains through 73.5 grains IMR 4831 for a starting point. Everything shot fairly well, but this combination at 70 grains really stepped out. Shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yards either through same hole or touching one another. (didn't bring home to measure). I loaded more with the 70 grains IMR4831 and hit the longer range following day. Performance was great at 450 yds, killing clay pigeons very consistently. My friend and I then ranged a beer can at the end of the field to be about 617 yards. Killed it after two reference shots then put two more through it to make sure it was down. I will mess with the load further to see if there are 1/10 grain preferences in either direction, but I am very pleased with this load at this point. I will also be looking into different brass to try after this brass wears out. I will also either have to modify my push-feed magazine or cram the bullet back in the casing a little more. With this COAL, I can only push one down and one chambered. This could be very dangerous when whitetail attack.

Now my friend wants to buy a .300 WM! HA!

Note** I did take a flat chain saw file and square up the tip of the SMK as they are inconsistent from the box.