155 gr. Palma bullets

[greenron15]

Will the 155 gr Palma bullet shoot well in an 1-11 twist 23 inch 308 barrel?
What load would you recomend?

 

[KevinThomas]

They very well may, but they're not going to perform at 1,000, if that's what you're after. The Palma's had to cut some corners in their design to achieve what they needed to do, and it has some downsides in guns that aren't specifically set up for these bullets. The "correct" twist (at least the one most of us are using in dedicated Palma guns) is 1x13". The 155s will also work quite well out of 1x10"s through 1x14"s, and while I haven't tried them, I suspect a 1x16" as well. Twist isn't the only issue here. Throating is another, and most of these guns are set up with Palma reamer; very short throated, compared to something like an Obermeyer or an M118 Match reamer.

Bottom line here is, give 'em a try and see how they do in your rifle. If you're looking at long range performance in a standard (22"-24") gun, I'd go straight to a heavier bullet to begin with.

 

[HPMike800]

I see no reason they won't shoot well. With a standard chamber you may have a lot of jump, but so do a lot of guns that shoot fine. You'll be loosing about 100fps or so compared to the standard 30" Palma barrel. You should be able to run 2800 or so.

FOR BOLT GUNS - 43.0gr H4895 or 45gr Varget should be good but full loads. About 1.5grs less for a gas gun. As Always work up!

 

[spclark]

Depends on how far away your targets are!

For 600 yards, 155's are fine in a 1:11 in your 23" barrel.

I shoot a 1:11 30" for Palma / long range & get 3,000 fps with loads that may not be appropriate for your rifle's chamber so I'll hold off giving you load suggestions. My chamber's throated long enough that Sierra's 2156 bullet (their "new" Palma bullet, as against the older 2155 design which is fine by any standard) seats with only about 0.1" in the necks when they're jumping 0.020". Either bullet will shoot X's at 1,000 yards if I pay really close attention to the wind.

For beyond 600 yards your barrel / chamber length will cost you some speed (as others have mentioned) but that just makes reading the wind more of a challenge. Heavier bullets would probably be most folks' first choice; 155's will give you lots of feedback on wind!

 

[DaveWhite]

Having been down this road with my former M70 "poor man's match rifle" (a modified heavy varmint model), I would say yes unless you want to shoot longer than 800 yards. Beyond that the 155 would not stabilize and would keyhole. Up to 800 yards it was a good shooter with the 2155 SMK and 45 grains of Varget.

Beyond 800, I had to shoot the heavier bullets, and the SMK 190 grain seemed to work best; if you want to go that route, I would work up from the load manuals.

Good luck.

 

[Laurie]

Having been down this road with my former M70 "poor man's match rifle" (a modified heavy varmint model), I would say yes unless you want to shoot longer than 800 yards. Beyond that the 155 would not stabilize and would keyhole. Up to 800 yards it was a good shooter with the 2155 SMK and 45 grains of Varget.

Beyond 800, I had to shoot the heavier bullets, and the SMK 190 grain seemed to work best; if you want to go that route, I would work up from the load manuals.

Good luck.

+ 1 on this advice.

You say "155 Palma bullet", but there are several 155s on the market including two from Sierra which uses the 'Palma' name on them with the Palma Federation's agreement. But even they are different. The original model (Sierra product # 2155) has a relatively low BC by today's standards, but is probably one of the most adaptable bullets available and shoots very well in most long-throated factory rifles. The new model 'Palma' MK (#2156) has a much higher BC and quite different shape and may not do so well in a rifle not set up specifically for it, or at any rate take more work to get small groups.

There are others on the market too primarily the 155gn Lapua Scenar which is an impressive design and which I've seen perform very well indeed in a range of .308W rifles including heavy barrel factory sporters and tactical models, many with 1-10" twists. It often appreciates being driven very hard. Berger gives you quite a choice these days including the impressive 155.5gn FULLBORE model which may suit.

However .... there is a very new bullet that may be just up your street - the Berger 175gn Tactical OTM bullet which is designed for 1-11" twist tactical rifles and to remain stable and fly consistently at long ranges even when dropping into subsonic speeds. Go onto the Daily Bulletin section and either do a search for 'tactical OTM' or scroll back to March 28th where you'll find information on both bullet and ammunition using it from Applied Ballistics LLC.

For 155s, you have a huge choice of loads and powders. H4895 and VarGet perform very well, likewise Viht N140, N540 and N150, Alliant Re15, and more. The fairly new IMR-8208 BRX is gaining quite a reputation with 155s in .308W. VarGet, N150, Re15 give very good results with 175s in the cartridge. Personally, I like Viht N150 with both bullet weights, but I imagine most US users go for VarGet, especially if they see large temperature variations as this propellant has a reputation for very good temperature stability and consistent performance.

Good luck,

Laurie,
York, England

 

[spclark]

The fairly new IMR-8208 BRX is gaining quite a reputation with 155s in .308W. VarGet, N150, Re15 give very good results with 175s in the cartridge. Personally, I like Viht N150 with both bullet weights, but I imagine most US users go for VarGet, especially if they see large temperature variations as this propellant has a reputation for very good temperature stability and consistent performance.

I'm getting great results with IMR 8208 XBR & the 2156 Palma bullet in a 30" Broughton 1:11 Palma rifle. Also worked up a load using the JLK 175 VLD that looks as good on target (maybe better for my scores) with the improved windage.

Hodgdon's load data page shows 308's as heavy as 200 grain for that propellant; I've done some testing with Sierra's 190 MK that looks promising. Will know for sure next week when I give it a try at 1,000 and 1,200 yards at 2011's Midwest Palma.

 

[Laurie]

Hodgdon's load data page shows 308's as heavy as 200 grain for that propellant; I've done some testing with Sierra's 190 MK that looks promising. Will know for sure next week when I give it a try at 1,000 and 1,200 yards at 2011's Midwest Palma

Let us know how you get on please, or if you prefer, PM me. I missed out on the first shipment of the powder to the UK which sold out nearly instantly, but have pre-ordered 4lb from the next delivery due in August.

Laurie

 

[spclark]

Will do Laurie. The load with the JLK 175 VLD is everything I hoped it would be, will be taking a couple hundred loaded rounds to Lodi with the rest of my equipment. Running some N150 too with the 2156 bullets, the rest with 8208XBR.

I think you'll like what you see when you finally get your hands on some, get it into a rifle behind your choice of bullet.

 

[BOBC]

I shoot my own handmade Palma bullets out of a 12" twist in a 308 Win. and they just go into a ragged hole at 100yds. I think they might work out of a 11" twist. I put a longer BT on mine and they seem to carry better at long range. I like 39.5 grs of 3031 with this Palma bullet. In my opinion, I'd rather over stabilize than under stabilize. When I shot high power we used 10" twist barrels with the 168's and if we held tight at 300 yd rapid fire 8X cleans were not uncomon. A 10" twist really over stabilized the 168, but it shot.

Good Shooting.

 

[xtightg]

I shoot out to 1000 yards with my Sako TRG 22 308 Win seems ok to me.
I use the Australian Dyer HBC 155 gr ( can't get Lapua Scenars ) Palma projectile pushed along with 47.5 gr AR2208 ( Varget ) work up your loads per the powder manufacturers specs.
26" barrel 2900 fps at muzzle, 1287 fps at 1000 yards.
Works for me 1 in 11 twist.
The 155's shoot amazingly well in my Remington LTR in 308 I have not used them long range as of yet but I put three rounds through one hole at 100 yards working up my LTR load.
Can only use 46.5 gr in the LTR before pressure signs 2760 fps in a 20" barrel 1 in 12 twist. again work up your loads as per the powder manufacturers specifications.
8)

Good shooting

Xtight

Scotland and New Zealand

 

[jonbearman]

In the savage ft-r and palma match guns ,how does the #2156 fly out of them with theur 1 in 12 30" barrel.