I was wanting to shoot 1-8 twist with the heavier bullets. Looking for everyone's thoughts / recommendations. I currently have a swift and love it but it is set up for the 55 gr bullets. I was hoping to shoot 70-85gr bullets in the new rifle. Does anyone have experience shooting the heavier gr bullets out of a 220 Swift? I am considering 22-6mm (224 TTH) instead due to velocities but I like the ease of using just factory 220 Swift brass instead of having to form brass from 6MM. Your thoughts?
1-8 twist - 220 Swift vs 22-6MM (224 TTH) with 70-85 gr bullets
- Thread starter Hbb6601
- Start date
Hbb -
Howdy !
I shot my wildcat .22-35Rem for approx 30yr, first from a Hart 1-14 24" SS; then from K&P 1-8 28" SS.
IMHO:
- As far a barrel life goes, you might eek-out a tad more barrel life w/ a .220 Swift 1-8; than from a notional fast-twist .22-6mm.
In theory, anywayz.
- The .220Swift would stop being notionally " over-bore" capacity, as bullet weights advance upward past 60gr.
- A 28-30" 1-8 .220 Swift would handle bullets like 75gr "A"-Max, with aplomb
- The .22-6mm would become more and more attractive, when the heaviest .224" calibre bullet weights are considered.
- Super-heavy .224" cal bullets would pose "shoot-through" risk, on many varmint animal types.
I used the 75"A"-Max exclusively in the 1-8 .22-35, for both live game and paper shooting. I did shoot through one " soybeanus digestus @ 200; but just that once. As an all-around .224" cal bullet featuring both Match accuracy potential and anti-varmint
capability; the 75"A"-Max seems to do both well.
With even heavier .224" cal bullets, I'd be skeptical that they would be retained in the animal; at all ranges ?
What's the intended application ?
My math showed I would have been able to put 450ft lb on a groundhog @ 966yd, at 75"A"-Max velocities the .22-35 could achieve.
This would have been adequate KE for a clean-kill on a groundhog @ 1,000, given a "good" hit. Your notional .220 Swift fast-twist
rifle would likely also be " in the zone ".
If the application is deer, one might find the heavier/heaviest .224" cal bullets more attractive.
It's ALL good !
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I shot my wildcat .22-35Rem for approx 30yr, first from a Hart 1-14 24" SS; then from K&P 1-8 28" SS.
IMHO:
- As far a barrel life goes, you might eek-out a tad more barrel life w/ a .220 Swift 1-8; than from a notional fast-twist .22-6mm.
In theory, anywayz.
- The .220Swift would stop being notionally " over-bore" capacity, as bullet weights advance upward past 60gr.
- A 28-30" 1-8 .220 Swift would handle bullets like 75gr "A"-Max, with aplomb
- The .22-6mm would become more and more attractive, when the heaviest .224" calibre bullet weights are considered.
- Super-heavy .224" cal bullets would pose "shoot-through" risk, on many varmint animal types.
I used the 75"A"-Max exclusively in the 1-8 .22-35, for both live game and paper shooting. I did shoot through one " soybeanus digestus @ 200; but just that once. As an all-around .224" cal bullet featuring both Match accuracy potential and anti-varmint
capability; the 75"A"-Max seems to do both well.
With even heavier .224" cal bullets, I'd be skeptical that they would be retained in the animal; at all ranges ?
What's the intended application ?
My math showed I would have been able to put 450ft lb on a groundhog @ 966yd, at 75"A"-Max velocities the .22-35 could achieve.
This would have been adequate KE for a clean-kill on a groundhog @ 1,000, given a "good" hit. Your notional .220 Swift fast-twist
rifle would likely also be " in the zone ".
If the application is deer, one might find the heavier/heaviest .224" cal bullets more attractive.
It's ALL good !
With regards,
357Mag
I have a Ruger # 3 that started life as a 223..I loved to hunt with the rifle, but thought it needed more power for hog and deer so I had it punched out to 220 Swift...I chose the Swift because I already had one and also because it was born the same year that I was...Shot 70 grain Speer and 4350..Never shot more than once except for the one I got stupid on and shot the front leg into even with botton of the chest ... Never lost a deer or had one run more than 40 yds..Shot them just behind the shoulder...Bullet stops under the skin on the off side with lots of lost weight...Also never got the bullet up to 3000 FPS... Short barrel...Still it would make an impressive contrail about 4" diameter out to the sighter at the range...First 3 shots at 200 yds were 3/4 inch...I was delighted with the results...LT
I shoot with a guy who has a .220 Ackley in an 8 twist shooting 80 grain Sierra MK's. His barrel has gone south on him this summer and he was getting an honest 3400 with a mild load shooting the 80's. Somewhere you reach the point of no returns with these overbore powerhouses and IMHO you can't go wrong with just a standard Swift set up and chambered for the 75-80 class bullets in an 8 twist barrel. The case certainly has enough boiler room without resorting to a wildcat where the dies are gonna be more expensive and more time spent at load bench instead of shooting. I have a Swift based on a Win. 70 action with 13 twist and a .220 Weatherby Rocket on a 40 X action with a 12 twist barrel. I am pushing the envelope with these 2 rifles and I can easily achieve 4250 fps with the Rocket and a 55 grain BT. But next one would have to be a standard Swift with an 8 twist barrel and smack some chucks way out there with 75 A-Max. 
Frank
Frank
pdhntr
Silver $$ Contributor
I have to admit, I drank the TTH kool-aid. I wanted a long range coyote rifle. After wasting a lot of powder trying to get a 75 A-max up to 3600, I finally gave up and moved on. The best I could do was 3500 and change and that was on the ragged edge of heavy bolt lift.
I know there are some TTH rifles that are fast. And if I was to do it again, to assure I could get to the speed I wanted, I would use at least a 28†three groove barrel. But that would be more than I want to carry around, so it becomes impractical.
One of the things I learned from the TTH is that there are no flies on the 6mm Remington. It does an excellent job with the bullet range you want to shoot.
But you already have the brass and dies to reload a swift, right? I think a fast twist swift would be a good choice.
If you think you might need more speed than the swift can give you with that bullet weight, then I would step up to a 6mm, and if that doesn’t do it, then for hunting a 6-06 or for bench a 6-284.
Jim
I know there are some TTH rifles that are fast. And if I was to do it again, to assure I could get to the speed I wanted, I would use at least a 28†three groove barrel. But that would be more than I want to carry around, so it becomes impractical.
One of the things I learned from the TTH is that there are no flies on the 6mm Remington. It does an excellent job with the bullet range you want to shoot.
But you already have the brass and dies to reload a swift, right? I think a fast twist swift would be a good choice.
If you think you might need more speed than the swift can give you with that bullet weight, then I would step up to a 6mm, and if that doesn’t do it, then for hunting a 6-06 or for bench a 6-284.
Jim
H -
To co-opt off what 40X and PDhunter said.....
My 28" .22-35 gave 3,500fps w/ 75 "A"-Max, over 40.5gr AA3100 and FED LR Magnum Match.
Switch in load to use of FED LR Match gave 3,420 fps honest, with even smaller groups.
That became my all-around load.
At THAT end of the .224" cal ballistics envelope, you sure can run into " diminishing returns " situations/combinations; if the chosen wildcat is notably "over-bore". .22-35 is not.
With regards,
357Mag
To co-opt off what 40X and PDhunter said.....
My 28" .22-35 gave 3,500fps w/ 75 "A"-Max, over 40.5gr AA3100 and FED LR Magnum Match.
Switch in load to use of FED LR Match gave 3,420 fps honest, with even smaller groups.
That became my all-around load.
At THAT end of the .224" cal ballistics envelope, you sure can run into " diminishing returns " situations/combinations; if the chosen wildcat is notably "over-bore". .22-35 is not.
With regards,
357Mag
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a .22-6mm with a 30" 1-8 Krieger that I love. Forming cases isn't that much of a problem. Target load is MRP, WW casess, F210M, 80.5gr Berger for 3540fps, 3shot 0.12" grp. Hunting load is the 70gr Barnes at 3700+ fps. Major problem is getting Norma MRP which gives the best combination of accuracy and velocity. R25 will give the velocity but not the accuracy.
I got about 1,000 round down the tube of my 224 TTH before the throught burned out. I had it set back and rechambered and it`s shooting real good again. It is a real tack driver with the 80 gr. SMK`s I also have a prair of 6-284, neather will handle the heavy bullets well and would reather have them in 22-284. I can tell you that above 3100 fps that the 80 gr. SMK makes and real good varmint bullet.
Thanks guys I really appreciate all the information this is great!! I have 243 AI and a 6MM-284 with 1-8 twist and love them all but want to play with 22 cal for a change and more long range varmints. I have dies for both 22-6MM and 220 Swift so I was debating between the two. I have a rock creek barrel 22 cal with 1-8 twist I am dying to use so I thought I would choose from these two cartridges. I would be happy with 75 gr bullets running over 3400 fps for sure. I know I could get there with 22-6MM but not sure with the Swift. What do you think?
Hbb -
Howdy !
I'm pretty much in-line w/ what 40X said.
A thought:
If your gun case will allow, you might want to go 29". A Plano Airglide will accomodate an un-braked 29" rifle, w/ standard L.o.p.
From what I saw w/ the .22-35 wildcat in 28" 1-8 guise, a 29" barrel would really " polish the apple " .
To bias success for a .220 Swift, I recommend 29". That would put you soundly into a comfortable spot, as regards candidate
powder choices.
Yeah... I think a .220 Swift could " do it "; if you " water the flowers " right.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I'm pretty much in-line w/ what 40X said.
A thought:
If your gun case will allow, you might want to go 29". A Plano Airglide will accomodate an un-braked 29" rifle, w/ standard L.o.p.
From what I saw w/ the .22-35 wildcat in 28" 1-8 guise, a 29" barrel would really " polish the apple " .
To bias success for a .220 Swift, I recommend 29". That would put you soundly into a comfortable spot, as regards candidate
powder choices.
Yeah... I think a .220 Swift could " do it "; if you " water the flowers " right.
With regards,
357Mag
I had the .22XC built: A Modern .220 Swift, The Varmint Hunter, October-December 2009 Issue #72.. My .22x6XC case volume of H2O is 49.73 grains with an overbore area ratio of 1262.1.. I have a Krieger 1-8 twist at 29.250", using A-Max 75 grain bullets with 41.90 grains of H4350, chronograph's at 3557fps, this is the high end node.
From my records, here's something interesting I found since updating QuickLoad... I had Reloader 17 as my back up powder, but experienced carbon build and switched powders.. Now, I noticed a lower case pressure and increased velocity within ~20fps of my original chronograph readings.. Loading 40.67 grains of Reloader 17 is now calculating 3642fps.. I feel another restest coming on now, where I didn't do this in the beginning..
Like I mentioned in another post, I shot this hard to compare the article with my shooting partner's Swift expertise and overall, the 6XC case in my opinion is under rated, pressure wise. This would make a great walking around woodchuck cartridge, but you need two sets of dies.. As for barrel life, this depends how much you like speed..
Now, if 40X would hurry up with another Swift, we could compare performance between the two..LOL
Steve
From my records, here's something interesting I found since updating QuickLoad... I had Reloader 17 as my back up powder, but experienced carbon build and switched powders.. Now, I noticed a lower case pressure and increased velocity within ~20fps of my original chronograph readings.. Loading 40.67 grains of Reloader 17 is now calculating 3642fps.. I feel another restest coming on now, where I didn't do this in the beginning..
Like I mentioned in another post, I shot this hard to compare the article with my shooting partner's Swift expertise and overall, the 6XC case in my opinion is under rated, pressure wise. This would make a great walking around woodchuck cartridge, but you need two sets of dies.. As for barrel life, this depends how much you like speed..
Now, if 40X would hurry up with another Swift, we could compare performance between the two..LOL
Steve
I think I would look at a 22-250 AI for a new 22 cal. Dies are readly avaliable, Lapua brass. Easy reloading. Should work along side of any standard Swift. After having a 224 Clark in years past the 22-6mm case is too much, tough on barrels. There are several other cases to play with like the 22-6.5x47L but no dies avaliable.. Have been going through all the options myself for a like project.
Aaron
Aaron
Hbb -
Howdy !
Forgot to mention..... may Hart 24" SS 1-14 chambered in .2-35Rem wildcat went 3,420rnds before keyholing its first bullet.
And that, after first few years of cleaning barrel w/o a coated rod. Also, I stupidly did a cryo on the barrel when it was already past the 1/2 way point of its life. Chunks of throat fell out, similar to look of dry lake bed.
My point:
.35Rem case capacity necked to .224" cal readily gave 3,420 good shots It undoubtedly would have faired even better;
had I cleaned correctly from the git-go; and skipped the ( late ) cryo.
Speed costs $$$..... How fast do you want to go ?!
Regards,
357MAg
Howdy !
Forgot to mention..... may Hart 24" SS 1-14 chambered in .2-35Rem wildcat went 3,420rnds before keyholing its first bullet.
And that, after first few years of cleaning barrel w/o a coated rod. Also, I stupidly did a cryo on the barrel when it was already past the 1/2 way point of its life. Chunks of throat fell out, similar to look of dry lake bed.
My point:
.35Rem case capacity necked to .224" cal readily gave 3,420 good shots It undoubtedly would have faired even better;
had I cleaned correctly from the git-go; and skipped the ( late ) cryo.
Speed costs $$$..... How fast do you want to go ?!
Regards,
357MAg
Heres a 22XC and a .220 Swift both with a 75 A-Max. The junction of bearing surface and boattail is seated approximately .050 ahead of neck/shoulder junction on both. Now i am seriously contemplating an 8 twist Swift set up for 75 A-Max after seeing the OP's thread. Looking at the 75 A-Max in the Swift case they just seem like a perfect match.
Frank
Frank
Attachments
40X Guy - I have to admit the 220 Swift has always been my favorite with a 55 gr and now after looking at your picture the 75 Amax could be an awesome combo. If I could run them 3300 or over I would be real happy if It would shoot bugholes!!! Might turn into my favorite long range varminter, I also think it would be a blast to shoot steel with out to 600 or 800 yards!! I think I am going to start the process of getting it chambered.
Guys,
I was thinking of using a 700 LA for added room for seating depth but would prefer a 700 short action if it wouldn't hamstring me with the longer bullets in the short magazine. Any thoughts on LA vs SA for this biuld?
Guys,
I was thinking of using a 700 LA for added room for seating depth but would prefer a 700 short action if it wouldn't hamstring me with the longer bullets in the short magazine. Any thoughts on LA vs SA for this biuld?
Hbb6601, I have been doing some research since you started this thread and I believe 3400 fps and even upwards with a 75 A-Max should be easily achieved. I think the real work will be in finding the right powder but i am thinking H4350, Rl-17 and slower will work. But thats half the fun. 
A Remy SA will work just fine if single feeding the bullets. And that is what I am gonna use on this build as i have an extra. Thinking of using Norma brass and a no turn neck based on a .255 chamber. I am using Norma brass in my .220 Weatherby Rocket and it mikes out at .253 loaded exactly in my .257 chamber Rocket. Will be calling Kiff tomorrow and give him some measurements based on the dummy round that I took the pic of. As .357 Mag said earlier in the thread go with at least a 28 inch barrel.
Frank
A Remy SA will work just fine if single feeding the bullets. And that is what I am gonna use on this build as i have an extra. Thinking of using Norma brass and a no turn neck based on a .255 chamber. I am using Norma brass in my .220 Weatherby Rocket and it mikes out at .253 loaded exactly in my .257 chamber Rocket. Will be calling Kiff tomorrow and give him some measurements based on the dummy round that I took the pic of. As .357 Mag said earlier in the thread go with at least a 28 inch barrel.
Frank
Are you talking about a single shot or in line feeding like an HS Precision DM? I am wanting a repeater.
That would be great if Rl-17 would work I have about 5 lbs of the same lot! ;D
I will use a 28" 1-8 twist Rock Creek in Sendero contour. This is going to be fun for sure.
Thanks again for all your help!
That would be great if Rl-17 would work I have about 5 lbs of the same lot! ;D
I will use a 28" 1-8 twist Rock Creek in Sendero contour. This is going to be fun for sure.
Thanks again for all your help!
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