I am getting a new barrel put on a Remington 700 action in .223 and am torn between twist rate. Will be shooting H335 powder with exclusively 50gr Sierra BlitzKing and maybe 40gr B/K bullets. Smith recommended 1-14 . I have an older Rem. 700 .223 with 1-12 that performs very well .Is 1-14 better than 1-12 with this bullet weight and caliber. Would a bit faster twist better in wind conditions ?
1-12 vs 1-14 twist rate in .223 using 50gr to 40gr bullets
- Thread starter dan2116
- Start date
I think the 50Bk will shoot better from a 223 in 12tw.
14tw provides marginal stability with it, at best.
My accuracy suffered using the 50Bk from a Cooper in 223(14tw). Well, it shot good, but not as good as the gun was capable of. I switched to a flatbase 50gr bullet and groups cut by 1/3 immediately. I know this is anecdotal, but there is nothing wrong with Bks, and 12tw wouldn't hurt.
14tw provides marginal stability with it, at best.
My accuracy suffered using the 50Bk from a Cooper in 223(14tw). Well, it shot good, but not as good as the gun was capable of. I switched to a flatbase 50gr bullet and groups cut by 1/3 immediately. I know this is anecdotal, but there is nothing wrong with Bks, and 12tw wouldn't hurt.
I have two rifles set up with barrels with 1-14 twist both 223,s both shoot in the 2,s or better with 52 up to 68gr. bullets . I never shot anything bigger than 68gr. as that is as big as I have . I really like the 1-14 but a 1-12 would not do any different . If your going to shot bullets in the 52/53 area 1-14 works very well .
If I was sure I would only use up to 50 grain bullets, I would probably opt for the 14 twist. In theory, all other factors being equal, it should be slightly more accurate, and produce slightly faster velocity. Cooper uses a 14 twist for a good reason and that is accuracy, although as Mike posted that isn't always the case.
But I would still go with a 12 twist. I like to leave my options open in case I can only get 55 grain bullets, I know I could shoot them as well.
But I would still go with a 12 twist. I like to leave my options open in case I can only get 55 grain bullets, I know I could shoot them as well.
Under twist is often worse than over twist.
And, you can't go only by bullet weights when deciding on twist.
A 223 won't torque much in either twist, and there are no 22cal bullets that would be considered over-spun from 12tw @ 223 velocities.
IMO, 12tw should be the standard twist for the 223.
My Cooper shot under 1/2moa with 50 blitzKings. It shoots 1/4moa with 50 Jayners, which are very similar(I didn't even have to change seating or load).
By my calcs the Sg of 50BKs @ 14tw/3500fps, Sea Level & 75deg is 1.17 (marginal). Possibly at higher altitudes the Blitzkings would have shot better..
So same conditions with the 50 FB Jayners Sg = 1.34 (better)
If this barrel was 12tw, SL/75deg conditions, Sg would be 1.60/1.82 (which wouldn't hurt a thing).
Cooper does go under-twist with their barrels pretty much across the board.
But it's my contention this is more of a pain than a gain. I also shoot way further than cooper's test groups, and outdoors..
And, you can't go only by bullet weights when deciding on twist.
A 223 won't torque much in either twist, and there are no 22cal bullets that would be considered over-spun from 12tw @ 223 velocities.
IMO, 12tw should be the standard twist for the 223.
My Cooper shot under 1/2moa with 50 blitzKings. It shoots 1/4moa with 50 Jayners, which are very similar(I didn't even have to change seating or load).
By my calcs the Sg of 50BKs @ 14tw/3500fps, Sea Level & 75deg is 1.17 (marginal). Possibly at higher altitudes the Blitzkings would have shot better..
So same conditions with the 50 FB Jayners Sg = 1.34 (better)
If this barrel was 12tw, SL/75deg conditions, Sg would be 1.60/1.82 (which wouldn't hurt a thing).
Cooper does go under-twist with their barrels pretty much across the board.
But it's my contention this is more of a pain than a gain. I also shoot way further than cooper's test groups, and outdoors..
I shot p dogs one year with a Savage BVSS with 9 twist and 50 gr Hornady original design.
Next year with same rifle and Nosler 40 gr .
No problems out to 375 yds. Lots of splat hits with the Hornady not so much with Nosler.
SBK are best. Shoot faster 3900+ in a Swift. Hornady start blowing up around 3600.
Speed will not factor in with a 223.
Next year with same rifle and Nosler 40 gr .
No problems out to 375 yds. Lots of splat hits with the Hornady not so much with Nosler.
SBK are best. Shoot faster 3900+ in a Swift. Hornady start blowing up around 3600.
Speed will not factor in with a 223.
I currently have four 223's, one has an 8 twist, two have 10 twist, and one has a 12 twist. I shoot 40 gr Nosler BT's near exclusively with only occasionally shooting 50's in any of my 223's. A small sample but in the 223's I currently own I have found the 10 twist to be most accurate and easiest to develop accuracy. One of the 10 twist is a Cooper, the other is a Tikka - both sporter contour and both easily sub one-half inch 5 shot groups. My 12 twist Cooper Varminter shoots nearly as well but is more finicky about load development, the 8 twist Tikka is aaround three-quarters for for 5 shot groups.
I have owned a boat load or 223's over the years and I have always leaned towards a slightly faster twist, for your projectile choices I would opt for the 12 twist. It certainly will stabilize your bullet the 40's and 50's and should you decide to move up to a slightly heavier bullet some day it allows that option.
As far as a faster twist being better in the wind - maybe. That is more a function of bullet ballistic co-eficient and velocity than twist rate.
drover
I have owned a boat load or 223's over the years and I have always leaned towards a slightly faster twist, for your projectile choices I would opt for the 12 twist. It certainly will stabilize your bullet the 40's and 50's and should you decide to move up to a slightly heavier bullet some day it allows that option.
As far as a faster twist being better in the wind - maybe. That is more a function of bullet ballistic co-eficient and velocity than twist rate.
drover
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Back when we used 22 cals in benchrest and 52gr bullets the 14 was always the first choice. 12 may be more versatile but if i was looking for accuracy in a 52-55gr id go 14 every day
Another theory...velocity (FPS)should always be a consideration when choosing twist.. a 22-250 will shoot well with a 14 twist and 50-60 grain bullets. but a slower .223 might be better suited to the 12 twist with lower velocity accuracy can be achieved with spin stability. A 300 Weatherby will have a 12 twist and shoot 180 grain well, but a .308 will need a 10 twist to get the accuracy from a 180 grain bullet of the same design..
Eddie in Texas
Eddie in Texas
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I have had a butt load of custom 223's, 223 AI's, and 22/250's & AI's. I have used both the 14 & 12 T, I can not tell the difference in accuracy as all of them shot in the very low 2's with occasional 1's when the conditions were right.
For benchrest application, a 14T only.
Advantage of the 12 twist for a varmint hunter is that is better stabilizes the Sierra 55g Blitz king, 53g V max, 60g V max, and in the 22/250 AI with 12T, I blew up coyotes with the 60g berger match at 3700 fps using Win 760...shot bug holes.
For giggles and grins, I did build one 223 with a zero freebore with a 16T that I got on a deal. I shot the 40's at ungodly speeds along with the 50g Sierra Blitz...p. dog, ground squirrel, jack rabbit rifle.
Barrel time= time a bullet spends in the barrel. Barrel time has some relation to how pressure builds, and just how barrel time relates to pressure is voo doo magic for me. Could be the barrel ID has more to do with pressure than twist rate.
IN the 243 AI's that I have had built, the 10T sure built pressure faster than the 12 Twist, same barrel maker, same reamers, same throat lengths...again...many factors.
For this reason, I buy barrels for the bullet weight that I intend to shoot, NOT get the fastest twist per the caliber. Another huge issue is the longer throat that is needed for heavier bullets. A guy could start out with minimal freebore, then as the leade gets some long wear, then go to a heavier bullet in a fast twist.
I like to shoot very, very tiny groups, then when I can only see a p. dog's head sticking up out of a hole at 300 yards, I can suck him out of that hole!
For benchrest application, a 14T only.
Advantage of the 12 twist for a varmint hunter is that is better stabilizes the Sierra 55g Blitz king, 53g V max, 60g V max, and in the 22/250 AI with 12T, I blew up coyotes with the 60g berger match at 3700 fps using Win 760...shot bug holes.
For giggles and grins, I did build one 223 with a zero freebore with a 16T that I got on a deal. I shot the 40's at ungodly speeds along with the 50g Sierra Blitz...p. dog, ground squirrel, jack rabbit rifle.
Barrel time= time a bullet spends in the barrel. Barrel time has some relation to how pressure builds, and just how barrel time relates to pressure is voo doo magic for me. Could be the barrel ID has more to do with pressure than twist rate.
IN the 243 AI's that I have had built, the 10T sure built pressure faster than the 12 Twist, same barrel maker, same reamers, same throat lengths...again...many factors.
For this reason, I buy barrels for the bullet weight that I intend to shoot, NOT get the fastest twist per the caliber. Another huge issue is the longer throat that is needed for heavier bullets. A guy could start out with minimal freebore, then as the leade gets some long wear, then go to a heavier bullet in a fast twist.
I like to shoot very, very tiny groups, then when I can only see a p. dog's head sticking up out of a hole at 300 yards, I can suck him out of that hole!
Buddy, nothing shoots Nosler Partitions with any accuracy. I have never gotten the 22 caliber 60 grain Partition bullet to do better than 3" groups in at least a dozen different rifles over the years with various twist rates. Most don't even shoot that good...more like 5 or 6 inch three shot groups at 100 yards. I have loaded them fast and slow.
The Nosler Partition is a fantastic killer on game, but it is just a very inherently non-accurate bullet if there ever was one.
I know they will kill and I know they are good performing bullets on game, but I have spent so much time trying to get them to shoot and never had any good results that when someone gets on here with claims of even shooting 1 inch groups, I DON'T BELIEVE IT.
In fact, with the possible exception of 180 grain 30 caliber Partitions I haven't gotten any other calibers to shoot the way I would like either. I would happily settle for 1 1/2" groups out of my hunting rifles and cannot get that. The bullets act like they want to shoot, I can put two touching and the third and fourth one is 4 inches away from those in different directions. Accurate Partitions are like jumbo shrimp, or military intelligence.
If they ever have a Nosler Partition only benchrest competition.....a 3 1/2" group will win it.
Last edited:
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
12 twists have shot the partitions acceptable for me in 22/250's and AI's. This bullet destroy's a deer like a 150g cup and core bullet out of a 300 Winchester. 3/4" is acceptable for me on deer with this small case application. My main worry is will the bullet shoot through a shoulder, and the 60g partition will.
I shot a few deer with the Rem 700, 22/250 with a hot load of IMR 4350, that is a 14T and groups were 2". Since my shots were usually 200 yards and under, I tried it out...the deer just flopped. There was not much meat to pick up from the deer processor, so I changed gears.
I shot a few deer with the Rem 700, 22/250 with a hot load of IMR 4350, that is a 14T and groups were 2". Since my shots were usually 200 yards and under, I tried it out...the deer just flopped. There was not much meat to pick up from the deer processor, so I changed gears.
I would want to shoot the 53 VMax and it needs a 12 twist in some elevations and weather conditions,,
I had a Rem 700 300 RUM that would shoot the 150 NP with 96 grs RL22 at 3610 fps in 1/2 MOA 3shot groups,,it got hot to fast to shoot 5 shots,,it would put the cold bore shot exactly where I wanted every time,,on whitetails it was point and shoot to 400 yards without even considering range,,
I have 2 223AI rifles with 1:14" twist barrels. I fireform with 40 grain NBTs at 3850 fps in one and 3950 in the other with unbelievable accuracy. I live on the Gulf Coast of S. Texas so for us its go shoot in the wind or stay at home and watch TV. Wind deflection to me is something I live, breathe, and dream about. My rifles are set up with 10 round AI magazines so I can clear off a mound of PD's in a hurry. I also have a 1:8 twist 223AI and I have a 22BR I am almost certainly going to cut off and make into a 1:9" 223AI so I will end up with all the bases covered but I can tell you right now, my favorite is the 40 grain bullet in the 223 size case. It takes a whole lot of BC to catch up with 4000 fps plus or minus down range speed....
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.