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Do you want the score you actually shot…or the score the E-target says you shot?

323 said:
With E targets if the shooters is shooting 9s-10s and X’s and they have a dropped shot they will get a provisional.
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When that happens we do get a provisional, but it still breaks your concentration and the RO (me or another) has to check for crossfires, etc... There is always the possibility of a bullet not making it to the target for some reason (blowup), with no one in the pits to watch for impacts there's no way to know. I always try to watch for an impact while scoring the shooter to insure that the bullet did make it to the correct target whether pulled or e-target. There are times you can not see the trace or dust behind though.
 
Still pulling at White Horse (WV) for now, but we’ve purchased 8 Shotmarkers. We see clear impacts in sand behind the paper target so the pullers don’t really miss shots. Now the scorer sitting behind the shooter …. they do miss.
 
I’m probably one of the newer shooters commenting on this thread. Ive never pulled a target. Matter of fact, the reason I won’t go to many of the larger matches is because I have no pulling experience and don’t want to hinder someone’s score being slow. Both places I shoot use shot marker targets. After using them I purchased one for myself to test and practice with.

I’ve not seen the discrepancy shown here at any time although I’m not saying it couldn’t happen. Call me lazy. Call me part of that “new generation.” If I had to pull targets I’d quit shooting at that range. One of the places I shoot usually has more people than targets, so they go round-robin once the match starts. You can use every second of your time, but if you get through in 10 minutes you get up and the next person takes the spot. You can’t do that pulling targets.

I have too many questions about the setup and the results the OP got to make a guess as to the issue, but tomorrow when I go test I’m gonna trust my shot marker again.
Blessings.
Dwayne
 
Monte F said:
When that happens we do get a provisional, but it still breaks your concentration and the RO (me or another) has to check for crossfires, etc... There is always the possibility of a bullet not making it to the target for some reason (blowup), with no one in the pits to watch for impacts there's no way to know. I always try to watch for an impact while scoring the shooter to insure that the bullet did make it to the correct target whether pulled or e-target. There are times you can not see the trace or dust behind
Click to expand...
Our attendance dropped off at our 600yd matches because we had to pull targets. We had no e targets at all. It was one of our older shooters that suggested buying e targets. Our attendance increased, then we were able to do something we normally couldn’t do run 1k matches. The 1k ranges we have access to do not have pits. Those e targets have done wonders for our club and shooting community.
 
Do you have microphones set up as two perfect squares, partially overlapping, or as a smaller square inside a larger rectangle?

I ask this because I would not trust a rectangular shape to be as accurate as a square even with dimensions correctly entered, and if you had two mostly overlapping squares, the shots are all suspiciously centered up when one of them should not be.

The “top” in each set is biased toward recording more vertical height, relative to the bottom one of each set.

The bottom set is biased toward more horizontal, although closer on one, than the other.

The reason I would not trust a rectangle is that the hub is now trying to mathematically compensate in one dimension, whereas a perfect square allows the hub to simply rely on the intrinsic electromechanical response of the microphones, which are virtually identical.

A better way to test these is to put one about ten feet in front of the other with only the paper target, - no backing. Expect the front target to record a group smaller by the percentage that 10 feet is of the second target’s total distance.
 
The way he set up the microphones is totally screwed up. Thje only way is to make two separate targets and make them as identical as possible and the test.
 
I can tell you from the years of shooting Palma with German Salazar as my mentor you learned to pull targets and be accurate. I have held the target down to be sure I didn't miss a shot, get a neighbor to confirm and I will tell you I have made a mistake or two. With a top shooter pounding the X ring you had better be on your game. I pulled and Scored John Whidden at the SWN and his 243 group was the size of a Georgia peach at 1000.

I also miss scored Trudie Fay on a Palma. She got done and I only had 16 shots with sighters. I told her I had 2 sighters and 14 shots for record. She had a box with 17 empties. The line Ref said score keeper is correct. Trudy laid back down and shot a pinwheel X and got up and asked me to pay more attention next time. Trudie and I were still good friends.

I was an early adopter of electronics. Silver Mountain and worked with some Shot markers. I have seen missed shots. Shots that were ghost shots WiFi issues and way to many tablet operators that failed miserably. Ben Avery shooters owned about 35 Silver mountains individually so we got special trips by Dan with SMT to sort out every problem you could dream of.

Helped Hex set up at the SWN and shot on there target the blatter concerned me for proper maintenance. To much money for a private user.

Scott Harris brought the first 15 Shot Markers to Ben Avery and the early issues have been solved but the same issues were I didn't shoot that shot, it didn't record the shot and most times it was user error. We had a shooter on one of Scott's calibration days as he wanted everything to be perfect. Had his two sons running support and one of the shooters was bitching about it is not recording any shots. Shooter error had the wrong yard line settings on his front sight. But the Target manufacture got a verbal beating for 5 minutes on the line. We figured it out and he was much quieter for the rest of the calibration.

There is no magic and no happy endings everything has issues sometimes.
Just my thoughts and experience.

John
 
jkl said:
I can tell you from the years of shooting Palma with German Salazar as my mentor you learned to pull targets and be accurate. I have held the target down to be sure I didn't miss a shot, get a neighbor to confirm and I will tell you I have made a mistake or two. With a top shooter pounding the X ring you had better be on your game. I pulled and Scored John Whidden at the SWN and his 243 group was the size of a Georgia peach at 1000.

I also miss scored Trudie Fay on a Palma. She got done and I only had 16 shots with sighters. I told her I had 2 sighters and 14 shots for record. She had a box with 17 empties. The line Ref said score keeper is correct. Trudy laid back down and shot a pinwheel X and got up and asked me to pay more attention next time. Trudie and I were still good friends.

I was an early adopter of electronics. Silver Mountain and worked with some Shot markers. I have seen missed shots. Shots that were ghost shots WiFi issues and way to many tablet operators that failed miserably. Ben Avery shooters owned about 35 Silver mountains individually so we got special trips by Dan with SMT to sort out every problem you could dream of.

Helped Hex set up at the SWN and shot on there target the blatter concerned me for proper maintenance. To much money for a private user.

Scott Harris brought the first 15 Shot Markers to Ben Avery and the early issues have been solved but the same issues were I didn't shoot that shot, it didn't record the shot and most times it was user error. We had a shooter on one of Scott's calibration days as he wanted everything to be perfect. Had his two sons running support and one of the shooters was bitching about it is not recording any shots. Shooter error had the wrong yard line settings on his front sight. But the Target manufacture got a verbal beating for 5 minutes on the line. We figured it out and he was much quieter for the rest of the calibration.

There is no magic and no happy endings everything has issues sometimes.
Just my thoughts and experience.

John
Click to expand...
Yep most of the “errors” on shotmarker are user errors. Majority of the time scores can’t resist hitting the tabs on target display. I been guilty of that but not on purpose I was scoring for a guy he get 5 then have - bunch of misses I’m trying to manual input the zeros. I lost count and just stopped trying to score. Best part after he was done shooting he goes what I score. I just gave him the look and said I have no idea in think 55 points??? Or you get me crossfire, the scorer not paying attention start hooting and hollering shots aren’t registering then you tell the shooters crossfiring. I have plenty of stories on shooter error including myself.
 
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Monte F said:
When that happens we do get a provisional, but it still breaks your concentration and the RO (me or another) has to check for crossfires, etc... There is always the possibility of a bullet not making it to the target for some reason (blowup), with no one in the pits to watch for impacts there's no way to know. I always try to watch for an impact while scoring the shooter to insure that the bullet did make it to the correct target whether pulled or e-target. There are times you can not see the trace or dust behind though.
Click to expand...
This is a fairly common problem at matches. Scorers that don't use a spotting scope. If you aren't watching trace, how do you know your shooter didn't cross fire?? This is the scorers responsibility. Using E targets doesn't absolve the scorer of this part of the job.
 
From January testing. Need to see if I can adjust the offset when I get access to the hub this weekend. But appears to have a few that are not correct to the paper target.IMG_3691.jpegIMG_0027 (1).jpegIMG_0028_1.jpg
 
I have a Silver mountain I use at my place at 600 yards and it’s pretty close but I’ve compared it to the actual target noticed if you had a scratch 10 or X it would record it as the lowest score. It makes the matches go faster but it’s not as accurate as pulled targets in my opinion.
 
Brian Blake, welcome to the club. They all hate me too, but are we wrong? It's a yes/no question to the others.

Saw that there were a number of E-target National Records set this week in Florida. At these annual Florida matches over recent years, they have set more National Records than at any other range in the U.S. Don't know why these same shooters haven't done the same on paper targets elsewhere. Don't blame the shooters, blame the system.
 
Bryan Blake said:
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Click to expand...
What were you adjusting your sights to ? The e target display or the paper target?

I never assume they put the faces in the exact center of the acoustic target or that the calibration is perfectly a pinwheel X. If using e target, your centering up is not on the paper. Not sure I am tracking how you lost 7 points from that displacement of paper shots.
 
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