Hello All, I have reloaded and shot thousands of shotgun loads. I have shot skeet, trap, sporting clays, waterfowl, upland, well, you get the picture. I love scattergunning. I always stick to the recipes, in fact, when loading duplex steel, I have been known to weigh each charge and shot individually. I always use high class firearms as an added safety. I recently acquired an interest in reloading pistol rounds. There are some things that have me confused: when a recipe calls for a specific (brand) bullet, how critical is that? In a shotgun, it doesn't care what you feed it in lead shot size (#9 to #4) or manufacturer, as long as you get the shot weight to powder right, and use the specified shot cup (generics available.) Plus the shot cups have those accordion pleats to take up any discrepancy in load length. A 109 primer is a 109 primer, doesn't matter who made it. AA shot cups comes from many sources, they all shoot the same. So, it seems like a solid cast lead bullet at 125 gr, shouldn't make any difference if it is round point, wad cutter, plated or jacketed, it should all fit a recipe calling for a solid 125 gr cast lead bullet. Hollow bullets would probably be a different situation in that they will expand differently and engage the barrel differently probably varying pressures. Is any hollow lead bullet interchangeable with any other of the same weight? Is a brass casing for 38 Spl, interchangeable with any other brass case in 38 Spl. (assuming brand name quality: Federal, Winchester, etc.)? Do solid 38 Spl cast lead bullets that weigh 125 gr from various manufactures all shoot (reload) the same (safety)? After you load and shoot many rounds, you get a feel for what you can safely substitute in reloading shotgun shells. You learn what variables are important and which ones you can safely substitute. I assume the same is true of bullet reloading. I am not asking if I should follow good recipes, Only an idiot would not follow a reputable recipe. I am asking what are the general rules of substituting, what seem to be, components of industry-wide standard dimensions. In 2 3/4" 12 ga you are loading 13 to 17 gr of powder. A half a grain makes little difference. However, when you are loading 3-5 grains of powder, a half a grain is a significant amount of the total charge, and will change how deeply you can set the bullet. Bullets don't have those nice accordion pleats on the bottom. Components have to fit exactly to be safe and work properly. It appears that bullets, cases, and primers (oranges to oranges) are pretty much equal (substituteable) among various manufacturers. Powder bulk varies among brands and types so no substituting here. OAL of the finished bullet is not negotiable and appears to be based almost entirely on the powder being dropped. I have not loaded bullet one yet, and I don't want to have to go back and pull some apart because I didn't make a safe product. Does it seem like I have a decent handle on how to do this? I shoot revolvers, so that is an additional "fudge factor." They will eat stuff a semi-auto might puke on. Thanks for your thougthful judgement! Regards
powderbrake
Gold $$ Contributor
I assume that you have a reloading manual like Sierra, Speer, or Hornady. It will give a range of loads for each caliber and bullet weight. Buy one and read it.
You can substitute different bullets, like your 125 gr 38 special example, and safety dictates you don't start with a max load , particularly when substituting.
Seating depth is generally set by the groove in the bullet, crimp the case in at that point. Many jacketed bullets do not have a groove, so you taper crimp those.
Powder seldom fills the case in pistol rounds, unless you are shooting max loads.
For example my favorite 38 special load is a 148 grain Hollow Base Wadcutter over 2.9 grains of Bullseye. It is very accurate in revolvers and my Model 52 S&W pistol. I use it for bullseye shooting at paper targets, and for all my plinking needs. A 158gr Semi Wadcutter lead bullet at about 700 fps is also a good load for accuracy and plinking.
You have not mentioned other calibers , but the reloading manual will have loads for all of them. I seldom shoot "full house" loads anymore, I I am looking for more recoil, I shoot my 44mag, and then I still shoot loads in the 900 to 1000 fps range with a 240 g lead SWC.
The loading manual is your friend, stay inside it's recommendations.
You can substitute different bullets, like your 125 gr 38 special example, and safety dictates you don't start with a max load , particularly when substituting.
Seating depth is generally set by the groove in the bullet, crimp the case in at that point. Many jacketed bullets do not have a groove, so you taper crimp those.
Powder seldom fills the case in pistol rounds, unless you are shooting max loads.
For example my favorite 38 special load is a 148 grain Hollow Base Wadcutter over 2.9 grains of Bullseye. It is very accurate in revolvers and my Model 52 S&W pistol. I use it for bullseye shooting at paper targets, and for all my plinking needs. A 158gr Semi Wadcutter lead bullet at about 700 fps is also a good load for accuracy and plinking.
You have not mentioned other calibers , but the reloading manual will have loads for all of them. I seldom shoot "full house" loads anymore, I I am looking for more recoil, I shoot my 44mag, and then I still shoot loads in the 900 to 1000 fps range with a 240 g lead SWC.
The loading manual is your friend, stay inside it's recommendations.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
Chancey, just a friendly suggestion.....when posting, it's much easier to read when proper paragraph formatting is used vs a solid wall of text that turns off many folks and will not read as a result. I'm not trying to be a grammar Nazi, just a friendly suggestion.
You've been given good recommendations so far, and has already been said, the loading manual is your friend. Best of luck with your venture into revolver handloading.
You've been given good recommendations so far, and has already been said, the loading manual is your friend. Best of luck with your venture into revolver handloading.
There is a huge difference between bullet types and the COAL for them. Examples would be wadcutter, semi wadcutter, round nose and hollow points.
Almost all have a different COAL.
Even with that, not all of the same type of bullet is the same.
The nose shape of a Hornady XTP is different from the shape of a Sierra JHP.
You also need to watch bullet construction. Be it lead, plated, or jacketed.
Small differences in COAL can have significant differences in pressure.
It's common for people that reload rifle to get closer to the lands (increase the COAL, Cartridge Over All Length).
Doing so with pistol cartridges can lead to problems.
In a semi auto pistol the slide might not go forward enough.
If you have someone local to you that reloads, you might want to get hold of them to be a tutor.
Almost all have a different COAL.
Even with that, not all of the same type of bullet is the same.
The nose shape of a Hornady XTP is different from the shape of a Sierra JHP.
You also need to watch bullet construction. Be it lead, plated, or jacketed.
Small differences in COAL can have significant differences in pressure.
It's common for people that reload rifle to get closer to the lands (increase the COAL, Cartridge Over All Length).
Doing so with pistol cartridges can lead to problems.
In a semi auto pistol the slide might not go forward enough.
If you have someone local to you that reloads, you might want to get hold of them to be a tutor.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
It is well worth the time and expense to find a well-qualified live mentor to get you started.
I would beg you to stop and read a few reloading manuals and also some internal ballistics volumes.
If that mentor isn't a close friend/family, then you will really want to read those ballistics volumes and then reloading manuals up front so you can ask better questions when you have them at hand.
To start up in parallel, stick with recipes as they are published and play it safe. Don't make assumptions and substitutions till you have the background.
The open internet forums are a dangerous place to get advice these days. You have no way to know who is legitimately qualified versus who is dangerous.
Folks here want you to keep your eyes and fingers, and to succeed with becoming a reloader. What we don't want, is another cautionary tale of tragedy because you didn't survive the Dunning-Kruger curve.
Good Luck and play it safe.
I would beg you to stop and read a few reloading manuals and also some internal ballistics volumes.
If that mentor isn't a close friend/family, then you will really want to read those ballistics volumes and then reloading manuals up front so you can ask better questions when you have them at hand.
To start up in parallel, stick with recipes as they are published and play it safe. Don't make assumptions and substitutions till you have the background.
The open internet forums are a dangerous place to get advice these days. You have no way to know who is legitimately qualified versus who is dangerous.
Folks here want you to keep your eyes and fingers, and to succeed with becoming a reloader. What we don't want, is another cautionary tale of tragedy because you didn't survive the Dunning-Kruger curve.
Good Luck and play it safe.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Welcome to the forum.
You seem to have a good concept of the basics.
Go by the manual.
Lead cast bullets and jacketed bullets of the same weight are NOT interchangeable.
Load carefully to avoid the deadly double charge.
If you shoot 38 and 357, keep the cases separate. You don’t want a 38 case charged with a 357 load.
You seem to have a good concept of the basics.
Go by the manual.
Lead cast bullets and jacketed bullets of the same weight are NOT interchangeable.
Load carefully to avoid the deadly double charge.
If you shoot 38 and 357, keep the cases separate. You don’t want a 38 case charged with a 357 load.
I agree, I was trying to save white space. I see all of the responders did as you suggested, I will do so in the future. My wife is PhD English teacher, she would be mortified if she saw what I did.
Thanks for all of the replies. I firmly believe in manuals and tested recipes, that is why I posted. What I didn't say is that I have about 10 lbs of 700-X powder (left over from shot-shell reloading) that I would like to use for my 38 loads. I am not finding very many recipes. I have a couple of recipes from the Hodgdon website which I am gathering materials for. One uses a HDY XTP which is a law enforcement bullet. I just want a target round. So that leaves only one recipe which uses a CAST LRNFP and I don't need to start learning to cast bullets. Can anybody recommend a good commercial cast, 125gr, LRNFP bullet that I can just buy? I have heard good things about Berry's coated bullets and would like to load their target hollow point in 125gr.
Again, thanks for your thoughtful replies.
Since when??
It's a self defense hollow point.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Believe me, putting the label of "law enforcement" on anything usually makes it much harder to obtain for us "civilians".
As for lead bullets for 38SPCL, you can check out Missouri Bullets also.
They have worked well for me, fairly inexpensive and come in boxes of 500.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
I buy a ton of plated bullets. You can save a lot of money over jacketed bullets. Sometimes, Everglades Ammo sells jacketed bullets that are almost as cheap as the plated. Berry’s are good but Xtreme bullets are sometimes cheaper.
Years ago, I shot cast bullets. I had to deal with leading in my barrels. I may have been pushing them too hard. This was before the internet and I didn’t have a mentor.
Years ago, I shot cast bullets. I had to deal with leading in my barrels. I may have been pushing them too hard. This was before the internet and I didn’t have a mentor.
charlie b
Gold $$ Contributor
I used a bunch of 700X in pistols. It is a light load so check for double charges.
It makes a great light load in .38. You can use the cast data for jacketed bullets of same weight and it will work fine. I also used it in light .45ACP loads. Commercial cast bullets work well if your pistol bore is not eroded too much. The biggest problem of leading in pistols is from a too large throat (or too small dia bullet), followed by too high a vel (over 1200-1500fps). You can use cast bullet load data with jacketed or plated bullets unless you are working near max loads.
It makes a great light load in .38. You can use the cast data for jacketed bullets of same weight and it will work fine. I also used it in light .45ACP loads. Commercial cast bullets work well if your pistol bore is not eroded too much. The biggest problem of leading in pistols is from a too large throat (or too small dia bullet), followed by too high a vel (over 1200-1500fps). You can use cast bullet load data with jacketed or plated bullets unless you are working near max loads.
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I will add only on item, but critically important to safety.
You must have a "failsafe" system to avoid a double charge condition since a double charge will fit in a case for many published loads. This can cause serious injury to the shooter and / or by standers not mention damage to the firearm.
The system I use is to turn all primed cases upside down in the loading block then charge each one. After all cases are charged, I slowly and carefully visually inspect each case in the loading block to make sure no case contains a double charge.
You must have a "failsafe" system to avoid a double charge condition since a double charge will fit in a case for many published loads. This can cause serious injury to the shooter and / or by standers not mention damage to the firearm.
The system I use is to turn all primed cases upside down in the loading block then charge each one. After all cases are charged, I slowly and carefully visually inspect each case in the loading block to make sure no case contains a double charge.
For any given pistol cartridge, the vast majority of brass cases made for this cartridge are interchangeable with no issue mixing/commingling different headstamps (manufacturer).
The reloading manual will provide both powder recommendations for specific bullet weights as well as the cartridge overall length (load length). Before you commit to a fully run, load up a couple of cartridges and confirm their length fits within your pistol’s magazine. Now drop the cartridge into your pistol’s chamber/cylinder to confirm it fits (completely seated) and that the slide/cylinder closes completely and operates without issues (extracts with the slide or cylinder rotates freely).
In addition to reloading manual, buy a case gage for each cartridge you plan to load. This will allow you to quickly inspect the loaded cartridge to ensure it conforms to SAAMI spec. This is a nice Quality Control and final check of your reloaded ammo. It will catch cases with bent/deformed rims, deformed case bodies, and even give you easy way to confirm that primers are fully seated.
The reloading manual will provide both powder recommendations for specific bullet weights as well as the cartridge overall length (load length). Before you commit to a fully run, load up a couple of cartridges and confirm their length fits within your pistol’s magazine. Now drop the cartridge into your pistol’s chamber/cylinder to confirm it fits (completely seated) and that the slide/cylinder closes completely and operates without issues (extracts with the slide or cylinder rotates freely).
In addition to reloading manual, buy a case gage for each cartridge you plan to load. This will allow you to quickly inspect the loaded cartridge to ensure it conforms to SAAMI spec. This is a nice Quality Control and final check of your reloaded ammo. It will catch cases with bent/deformed rims, deformed case bodies, and even give you easy way to confirm that primers are fully seated.
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