Auto trickler vs. Super Trickler

[fatelvis]

I have been using the RCBS Chargemaster for years, and honestly, I have been satisfied with its performance, but like most hobbies, I am looking for better, faster. I have been eyeballing these two and was wondering which, in your opinion, is better overall, and I should buy? Thanks for your help

 

[Sniper338]

I have the "old" auto trickler. I'd be interested to see if the new V4 is much better.

Flip a coin and pick one... both work fine from videos ive seen.

 

[Ccrider]

I have owned them both and they both work as advertised. I was a beta tester on the V4. I intended to do a review but never got around to it.

With that said, if you are into computer programming, get the ST. The AI upgrade made the ST closer to plug and play, but you still have to put some time in to learn how to use it and to get its full potential. You can program the ST to drop ladders. You can save unlimited numbers of profiles with the ST, unlike the V4. There is a catalogue of settings that you can choose from and then tweak. The AI function is neat as it continually refines itself as you use it. Last, you program the ST using the onboard keypad. The V4 requires you to use your cell phone or computer.

One negative is that the ST annoyingly waste powder due to the way it is designed. I found myself cleaning up powder all of the time.

The V4 is pretty much plug and play.

I sold the ST close to a year ago and never looked back.

 

[CADDIE5]

Autotrickler v4 works great. By the time it throws a charge I just have the next piece of brass ready.

 

[Raydee]

I have owned them both and they both work as advertised. I was a beta tester on the V4. I intended to do a review but never got around to it.

With that said, if you are into computer programming, get the ST. The AI upgrade made the ST closer to plug and play, but you still have to put some time in to learn how to use it and to get its full potential. You can program the ST to drop ladders. You can save unlimited numbers of profiles with the ST, unlike the V4. There is a catalogue of settings that you can choose from and then tweak. The AI function is neat as it continually refines itself as you use it. Last, you program the ST using the onboard keypad. The V4 requires you to use your cell phone or computer.

One negative is that the ST annoyingly waste powder due to the way it is designed. I found myself cleaning up powder all of the time.

The V4 is pretty much plug and play.

I sold the ST close to a year ago and never looked back.

I did the exact opposite, I hating having to use my phone to control the V4 so I switched to the ST. It can be a bit harder to get perfect but with every update it gets better and better. Either one work better than anything on the market right now.

 

[FeMan]

I have both and prefer the V4 by a long shot. My V4 is faster and has less overthrows than the AT. I also hate the the AT will not automatically trim up an underthrow like the V4. If the AT is short you have to dump and and re-throw the charge.

 

[prone.life]

I begrudgingly moved on from my AT3 after I got tired of troubleshooting the connection to the app on my phone; also had some wiring issues because I moved the dispenser a lot and the wiring connections weren't super robust. Loved my AT3 and was very sad to witness it's demise after years of flawless use.

I picked up the ST somewhat out of curiosity but mostly because of availability. For me the learning curve was steep and very frustrating as I was in denial I could operate it without reading the voluminous user manual; a little bit of homework goes a long way. IMO the ST AI is a marketing designation.

The ST is like a CNC machine having fine grained control over almost every aspect of its operation but with that comes a lot of responsibility for configuration. The AT is more like a Mr. Coffee, it just works without a lot of fuss but no options for optimization; you get what you get.

It's not dissimilar to the LabRadar(LR) vs Garmin comparison. My LR successfully recorded thousands of shots over a number of years but required frequent re-configuration once I got to the range and often interfered with why I went to the range in the first place. My Garmin doesn't require much attention and mostly does what I expect it to.

I do miss the exceptional support from Adam MacDonald (AT), I still don't understand how he personally gets back to everybody so quickly (and patiently). Admittedly I haven't asked for support from the ST folks so I don't have any comparison.

Both the AT and the ST are magnitudes of order better than my ChargeMaster (and yes I understand there is an order of magnitude increase in the AT/ST cost)

"and now you know the rest of the story. This is Paul Harvey. Good day."

 

[ogre1911]

Old non techy guy here. My son in law does the card updates and I figure out the rest.

My ST throws H4350, 4831sc, Varget, n150 and triple nickel at an average of 10 seconds a charge.

Like the Benny Hill character "learning all the time!"

I like my Super Trickler

 

[bozo699]

I have been using the RCBS Chargemaster for years, and honestly, I have been satisfied with its performance, but like most hobbies, I am looking for better, faster. I have been eyeballing these two and was wondering which, in your opinion, is better overall, and I should buy? Thanks for your help

Nice thread buddy!… following to learn
Wayne

 

[Timon]

If you wish to have a new thrower about as easy to use as your Chargemaster, you’ll want to go with the V4. It’s not exactly “plug and play”, but it’s very close to it.

The ST will require tweaking this and that a lot, much like computer programming. I’m in my 70’s and wanted simple to operate, with very little required tweaking on my part, so I went with the V4.

I have been very happy with it. After the initial set up, you pretty much just turn it on and you’re ready to go. I do a calibration on the powder dispenser every time I use it, but that only requires you to hit a button that says “calibrate” and it does it for you.

I have never had one moment of buyers remorse, where I thought that I should have gone the other way and bought the Super Trickler, instead of the V4.

 

[drop_point]

I have owned them both and they both work as advertised. I was a beta tester on the V4. I intended to do a review but never got around to it.

With that said, if you are into computer programming, get the ST. The AI upgrade made the ST closer to plug and play, but you still have to put some time in to learn how to use it and to get its full potential. You can program the ST to drop ladders. You can save unlimited numbers of profiles with the ST, unlike the V4. There is a catalogue of settings that you can choose from and then tweak. The AI function is neat as it continually refines itself as you use it. Last, you program the ST using the onboard keypad. The V4 requires you to use your cell phone or computer.

One negative is that the ST annoyingly waste powder due to the way it is designed. I found myself cleaning up powder all of the time.

The V4 is pretty much plug and play.

I sold the ST close to a year ago and never looked back.

There is a kit for the Super Trickler you can buy that includes a splash guard. I haven't wasted any of my N150 since installing it.

 

[tdogg]

I'm not sure how easy the V4 is to setup but the ST is not hard at all. Definitely not computer programming.

You setup profiles (if you want) that save your charge profiles for loads you load often. It already has powder profiles setup in it, you just have to set the high vibration motor setting per powder type. You warm up the vibration motor, fill with powder, prime the tubes, and start loading. If you want to fine tune the powder profiles you can tweak things but the self learning embeded now seems to take care of that for you now.

It has more mechanical flaws that are annoying than software flaws. It does spill powder, which is annoying. You have to slide the powder cup onto the scale without bumping the top supertrickler unit. It is also not "easy" to change powders/empty the hopper. It's not hard but requires technique to minimize powder spillage. Essentially you have to pick up the unit and tilt it toward the back while you position it over your powder container to open the dump valve.

I have 3D printed a new powder cup to minimize powder spills. It eliminates any powder bouncing out of the cup during drops. I also designed an undertray that contains the spilled powder so you can clean up fast when emptying the hopper.

I like the ladder feature, it works well. The touchscreen works well. The screen layout does take some time to get used to (just like learning a new remote/app on the phone). I'm still learning all the features and how to use them. Thus far it is working fast enough for me to seat a bullet and check the OAL between charges. I have some small percentage of drops that fail but it isn't enough for me to dig in and fine tune anything yet.

No buyers remorse as it is far superior than manually dumping a charge and trickling up to weight on a scale.

Cheers,
Toby

 

[Fire Dog]

I have the "old" auto trickler. I'd be interested to see if the new V4 is much better.

Flip a coin and pick one... both work fine from videos ive seen.

I have a Mark 1 Autotrickler and just adding the trickler unit from Ingenuity really speeded up the throw time and virtually eliminated any over/under throws.
Still holding my breath for the whole IP setup {I confess, I have had to take a second breath…} but my Mk 1 with Area 419 upgrades to eliminate the printed plastic bits of the original and the IP trickler unit is working just fine.
The main advantage of the IP trickler plus the control unit {I don’t have that} is that you can save various weighing programs. Much like the latest model annealer from AMP… {I have a Mk1 as well but with upgrade to use the AZTEC Code}
Both units are quick and accurate to use and the only real reason to replace them is being a life long “Tool Tragic”….

 

[Chiquita]

I've had V3 then sold it to get V4. I loved V4 compared to V3. Then sold V4 to get ST.

ST has a learning curve. I almost gave up on ST, but I am happy that I didn't. With the ST you "HAVE" to be patient. Once you patiently adjust the numbers and the settings, it is an excellent device.

I can do 100 drops with 90% and about 10 seconds per drop. By the time i seat the bullet, put it in the ammo box, the next drop is ready.

The ST has features that the V4 doesn't have. For example, the load development feature. I can do 50 round at .3 intervals and it will automatically change to the next charge after the 5th drop.

The V4 is much easier to set up, as mentioned by others. The ST will require your patience to really dial it in and has more control.

You will be happy with both.

ETA: I have never had issue losing or wasting powder with the ST.

 

[kiwijohn]

ST user here.
My unit is build #400 and something, so is the hardware type 1. And had it a few years and a few software updates.
Did some beta testing so I know my way around it's foibles.
My best tips are.
Always do a full warm up
Always ground the scale
Always tune the powder vibrate (auto)
Keep your weights realistic.
If the unit throws bad consecutively re do the vibration settings. Don't make big changes on the settings.
Change only one thing at a time and OBSERVE, give it 10 throws to settle down before you decide to change again.

The ST never underthrows. If I am doing say Varget and my goal weight is 40.00 I set the unit to 39.98 with 0 below offset and my upper limit to 40.02 Most charges will hit 40.0 but I can live with a 39.98 or 40.02
If you have that syndrome itch just put all the 40.0"s in one box.
I would add that it's better to set profiles before you want to load for a match.

 

[BarnDweller]

I own both. I just purchased the AutoTrickler. For me the Super Trickler is just to much screwing around. I want to load rounds not play in some software all the time. I Did that latest software update and did a complete reset on the profiles. I let the AI work. I did 100 test charges of Staball 6.5 and around 35 it was working pretty good, by the time it got to the 100th charge it was taking over 30 seconds and over charges all over the place. Then I decided to buy the Autotrickler. I have only used it a few times and its not perfect but I like it. There are some things in the Auto Trickler that can be adjusted and they have them all on one screen instead of having to search all over the software for what I was adjusting.

I have a friend that is LOT smarter than I am, he is playing with it and if he can get it working well enough for him he said he may want to buy it. I will give him the deal of a lifetime on it. I think the best one will be the Ingenuity Precision Power Meter if he ever starts shipping. I have one preordered. He also sells just the trickler that can be adapted to the Auto Tricklers 3 and 4 I think. Guess what, they are also not shipping right now. Oh well.

I will say the Auto Trickler v4 is WAY FASTER than my Super Trickler ever was. Best I could get was just over 50% good charges I love how the powder is handled on the Auto Trickler. I had so many problems with my Super Trickler and I purchased a RCBS Matchmaster about 6 months ago. It works fantastic and almost never over throws but its not as accurate and the FX-i120 scale From my measurements its off by .006 but its constant. I would use it and just adjust for the difference but where the powder comes out (And I even got a after market pan which is better) its so small and my big hands just has a hard time getting the pan on and off the scale.

Good Luck!

 

[ogre1911]

I got the newest ST update a couple of weeks ago.

I went in earlier this evening, turned it on for the 30 min warmup while I cleaned my barrel.

Put in some Varget, set point to 30.1 grains with a .02 tolerance on both sides and a small pile of grains and tweezers. It threw 25 rds with learning mode on and it averaged 7-8 seconds per throw with a kernel over charge twice. Fastest throw was 5.1 seconds slowest was 11.
Changed powder to 30.1 of N150 and same with almost exactly the same results.

I have friends that use the v4 and they tell me their results are much like mine. Seems like both work well.

 

[209jones]

I lost interest in the Supertrickler when he was giving a guy in the FB group a snotty answer about warranty thru US dealers vs direct. How did he know the guy wasn't someone interested in being a dealer, and his answer probably discouraged a few more that may have been thinking about it. Can't remember if that was before or after I got my V4, was not long after if it was. And at the time people were so busy discussing the software, I was already thinking it was designed more for production facilities than home reloaders, and was likely going to be more trouble than it was worth. V4 is pretty easy to use, I'm not a computer nerd, it's the only thing I run off the phone, was nervous about that side of it, but, no issues with it, it's been good.

 

[Krogen]

^^^^ I just got a V4 and FX-120i recently. It's straightforward to set up and use. I'm pleased with its accuracy and speed. It's doing exactly what I want.

I considered the Supertrickler, but after reading about it here it seemed like too much fiddling for my patience level. I was concerned about support whereas Adam's support for Shotmarkers and Autotricklers is stellar.

The final coffin nail materialized when I asked about Supertrickler tariffs and import fees. Got a flippant, brush-off answer. Adding perhaps 35% worth of fees (based on other experience) to an already higher purchase price killed it for me. Not enough bang for the buck. By contrast, CE Products clearly describes why they have no surprise fees on the V4/scale combo. A nice discount during the Christmas sale sealed it for me. A great choice methinks.

 

[ogre1911]

I agree. I wouldn't go through that crap on a bet.
I got my ST used on this forum with a pretty well constructed plexi case.