223 sizing variance?

[Kracken McGraw]

Thank you. What exactly does BCH stand for?

We probably don’t really want that answer! lol.

 

[Webster]

Trying to get a consistent .002" bump on my lapua 223 cases and getting a .003" variance from low to high. 2 or 3 firings on them, they have not been annealed. Decapped seperately, RCBS case lube rolled on a lube pad, Redding FL bushing sizer with no expander ball and .248" bushing. Giving them 5-6 seconds each for dwell time at the top of the stroke. RCBS rock chucker. Mitutoyo digital calipers with hornady case gauge. Fired cases are coming out at 1.457"-1.4575" so my target goal was 1.455" Out of 50 cases, 37 are between 1.455"-1.456" and 13 are between 1.453"-1.4545" Is this acceptable? I feel like I'm chasing my tail here...Is it my sizing process, equipment, or all the cases haven't fully formed yet, or a combination of all 3? Getting pretty annoyed at this point, and my OCD of having everything exactly the same is not helping any...

View attachment 1713286

The numbers mean zero if they shoot small groups. I get about 1 thou variation doing nothing special. Lapua brass flame anneal. Some guys don't think you need to lube the neck and shoulder. The neck is the most sized part of the case. Neck friction may affect how hard the die pushes the neck/ shoulder area downward? I roll on a pad too. I roll the body then push the neck down and roll about a half turn. This puts less lube on the neck shoulder than the body. I twist the case in my fingers to spread the light coating on the neck and shoulder area. Reloading since 1970, no problems ever. Maybe 0000 steel wool the carbon off the necks before rolling on the pad to get uniform lube on the neck.

Case color looks like your annealing. How do you do it?

 

[kyotekiller25]

We probably don’t really want that answer! lol.

Fair enough

 

[kyotekiller25]

The numbers mean zero if they shoot small groups. I get about 1 thou variation doing nothing special. Lapua brass flame anneal. Some guys don't think you need to lube the neck and shoulder. The neck is the most sized part of the case. Neck friction may affect how hard the die pushes the neck/ shoulder area downward? I roll on a pad too. I roll the body then push the neck down and roll about a half turn. This puts less lube on the neck shoulder than the body. I twist the case in my fingers to spread the light coating on the neck and shoulder area. Reloading since 1970, no problems ever. Maybe 0000 steel wool the carbon off the necks before rolling on the pad to get uniform lube on the neck.

Case color looks like your annealing. How do you do it?

Thanks for the info! I do not anneal, never have, and really have no desire to. That's just from the factory. I don't tumble my brass either. Goes straight from my ammo box to the rifle, and right back into the ammo box. All I do is wipe the outside necks with a rag, and brush the inside neck a couple times with a case neck brush.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

If u are using the anvil with the comparator ditch it. There is no way around it, when you tighten the hornady tool it cocks it to the side. The tighter you make the worse it gets. The anvil doubles the error. Its a relative measurement, so just make sure you tighten it the same each time.

Spin and jiggle the case till you get the smallest measurement.

There is nothing wrong with +\- .0015. its .0005 is also beyond the accuracy of calipers. Ignore the last digit. If its +\- .003, thats no good.

If they are not fully expanded find 3 or more of the very longest. If they chamber easy do not bump. Slowly adjust. They will get longer, then keep going till you are back to the initial measurement. Size them all. The short ones will grow and the long ones will stay the same.

If the bolt is hard to close repeat the process above, but when it returns to the initial measurement go .002 more. Test it chambers easy. Confirm you are in the zone by putting a piece of scotch tape on the head of the case. Its .002 thick, so now it should not close easily. If it does you bumped too much.

Repeat test on at least 2 more of those longest pieces that won't chamber.

You likely will only have some that are fully formed and need bumped. Again, the short ones will grow after sizing. Eventually they will all catch up and the bump will be at max consistency.

In other words, after 3 to 5 in a row that are +\- .001 of the target put the calipers away lol

 

[kyotekiller25]

If u are using the anvil with the comparator ditch it. There is no way around it, when you tighten the hornady tool it cocks it to the side. The tighter you make the worse it gets. The anvil doubles the error. Its a relative measurement, so just make sure you tighten it the same each time.

Spin and jiggle the case till you get the smallest measurement.

There is nothing wrong with +\- .0015. its .0005 is also beyond the accuracy of calipers. Ignore the last digit. If its +\- .003, thats no good.

If they are not fully expanded find 3 or more of the very longest. If they chamber easy do not bump. Slowly adjust. They will get longer, then keep going till you are back to the initial measurement. Size them all. The short ones will grow and the long ones will stay the same.

If the bolt is hard to close repeat the process above, but when it returns to the initial measurement go .002 more. Test it chambers easy. Confirm you are in the zone by putting a piece of scotch tape on the head of the case. Its .002 thick, so now it should not close easily. If it does you bumped too much.

Repeat test on at least 2 more of those longest pieces that won't chamber.

You likely will only have some that are fully formed and need bumped. Again, the short ones will grow after sizing. Eventually they will all catch up and the bump will be at max consistency.

In other words, after 3 to 5 in a row that are +\- .001 of the target put the calipers away lol

Great info! I screenshot that to save for future reference. Appreciate it!

 

[enrique]

If any one hasn’t said it. Don’t put lube on the shoulder! I don’t even lube the neck - sac bushings

 

[kevinbritvec]

Trying to get a consistent .002" bump on my lapua 223 cases and getting a .003" variance from low to high. 2 or 3 firings on them, they have not been annealed. Decapped seperately, RCBS case lube rolled on a lube pad, Redding FL bushing sizer with no expander ball and .248" bushing. Giving them 5-6 seconds each for dwell time at the top of the stroke. RCBS rock chucker. Mitutoyo digital calipers with hornady case gauge. Fired cases are coming out at 1.457"-1.4575" so my target goal was 1.455" Out of 50 cases, 37 are between 1.455"-1.456" and 13 are between 1.453"-1.4545" Is this acceptable? I feel like I'm chasing my tail here...Is it my sizing process, equipment, or all the cases haven't fully formed yet, or a combination of all 3? Getting pretty annoyed at this point, and my OCD of having everything exactly the same is not helping any...

View attachment 1713286

I always experience +/- .001" from my intended goal on about 10% of the cases I size.

 

[L.Sherm]

Strip your bolt and see if thr fired brass the bolt handle drops doing the Wheeler method that will tell you if brass is fully formed

 

[charlie b]

FWIW, the picture of your die and case holder in the press shows that the press is cammed over. The cam action is the last part of the stroke on the press just before it hits the stops.

That gap in there is ok. Most dies are made so they touch the case holder to get the case back to SAAMI spec.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

FWIW, the picture of your die and case holder in the press shows that the press is cammed over. The cam action is the last part of the stroke on the press just before it hits the stops.

That gap in there is ok. Most dies are made so they touch the case holder to get the case back to SAAMI spec.

How can you tell it’s cammed over in that pic?

 

[358WCF]

Thank you. What exactly does BCH stand for?

Blond, er... curly hair

 

[kyotekiller25]

Strip your bolt and see if thr fired brass the bolt handle drops doing the Wheeler method that will tell you if brass is fully formed

Do you have a little better explanation or a link to a video for this? I'd like to try that. Thank you

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Do you have a little better explanation or a link to a video for this? I'd like to try that. Thank you

https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos
The sizing brass one.

 

[kyotekiller25]

https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos
The sizing brass one.

Appreciate ya!

 

[Webster]

Do you have a little better explanation or a link to a video for this? I'd like to try that. Thank you

Stripping the bolt is a pain and not necessary.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Appreciate ya!

Those videos by Alex Wheeler are a milestone in this sport and we should thank him every time there mentioned.

 

[Homerange]

My 2c FWIW.....
Apply KISS principles and get a LCD and keep a little lube on your bolt lugs.
No need to go the whole hog for the 223 if you keep your brass restricted to 1 firearm.

Anneal only when you start seeing some variation in seating force as the LCD works the brass so little.
Couldn't be simpler !

 

[L.Sherm]

Stripping the bolt is a pain and not necessary.

Takes about 60 seconds

 

[charlie b]

How can you tell it’s cammed over in that pic?

Because he said it is at the top of the stroke.

The single stage presses (at least the ones I've used) set the leverage up such that the max movement on the ram is slightly before the lever reaches the stop. Like top dead center on a crankshaft, or going over the node on a camshaft.