Load Development Question .308 - Fliers

[L.Sherm]

Personally I would start by sorting your brass, I fought WW brass for my 6.5x300wsm untill I took 100 case and made 3 different batches to get rid of unexplained flyers.
Or I would use better quality brass.

 

[bulletpruf]

There is almost always some wind, if you set flags you will see. That said i think your issue is gun handling. Since the shot appears to go random places, i have no idea what the issue is. Have someone watch you shoot or video yourself and that may provide some answers.

I agree that the likely issue is gun handling. I'll tweak a few things when I go out to the range again.

 

[bulletpruf]

When it comes to gun handling one thing I've learned from other shooters is working with the lowly 22LR when things go awry. Because the bullet is in the barrel so long it highlights issues with gun handling. It also helps when being spotted by someone else when because almost all movement is non recoil related. Sometimes it helps to put the ego in the uncase for awhile!

I wish I had an accurate 22LR that I could use for a bit of practice, but I just have an old 10/22 that doesn't shoot groups worth a darn.

 

[bulletpruf]

Many great suggestions here. I would add being careful not to load your bench with body pressure. Not sure what you’re shooting off of but many benches move a little. I think I would be looking at table manners, (follow thru) flags, and parallax. Good luck!

The body pressure on the bench is one thing that I'm going to pay closer attention to next time I'm at the range.

 

[NF1E]

I wish I had an accurate 22LR that I could use for a bit of practice, but I just have an old 10/22 that doesn't shoot groups worth a darn.

That is a good start. Shoot your groups and work to improve the average. No matter how inaccurate a rifle is, things can be improved with practice, practice, practice. Whatta Hobby!

 

[bulletpruf]

Personally I would start by sorting your brass, I fought WW brass for my 6.5x300wsm untill I took 100 case and made 3 different batches to get rid of unexplained flyers.
Or I would use better quality brass.

I've been shooting brass with the same headstamp - Federal - for all groups, but I also have some Lapua, Remington, and Hornady brass.

Best bet is probably to buy 100 x Lapua or Starline and keep the rest for non-critical stuff.

 

[bulletpruf]

That is a good start. Shoot your groups and work to improve the average. No matter how inaccurate a rifle is, things can be improved with practice, practice, practice. Whatta Hobby!

I was hoping you would say that I needed to immediately pick up a high end bolt action .22LR so I'd have an excuse to go get one...

 

[NF1E]

I was hoping you would say that I needed to immediately pick up a high end bolt action .22LR so I'd have an excuse to go get one...

After you have made all the improvements possible using what you have, then it might be time to make an upgrade. I have seen guys on my range with very expensive toys that were clueless as to how to make them perform. As an example, we had a couple of " bankers from the city" preparing for a prairie dog hunt out West that wanted some practice. They showed up with custom built rifles with fantastic glass. After shooting most of their ammo up at some AR-500 prairie dogs down range 150 yds without a hit, my son took one of the rifles that were just bad, according to the owners, and shot 12 in a row with center mass hits on the dogs. We don't ever expect to see them again. I suggested they take up river rafting and leave the guns to folks that are willing to learn. Whatta Hobby!

 

[bulletpruf]

After you have made all the improvements possible using what you have, then it might be time to make an upgrade. I have seen guys on my range with very expensive toys that were clueless as to how to make them perform. As an example, we had a couple of " bankers from the city" preparing for a prairie dog hunt out West that wanted some practice. They showed up with custom built rifles with fantastic glass. After shooting most of their ammo up at some AR-500 prairie dogs down range 150 yds without a hit, my son took one of the rifles that were just bad, according to the owners, and shot 12 in a row with center mass hits on the dogs. We don't ever expect to see them again. I suggested they take up river rafting and leave the guns to folks that are willing to learn. Whatta Hobby!

I've got a lot of work to do, but I'm always surprised at the guys who show up at the range, shoot a 3" or so group, adjust the scope based on that, and then shoot another 3" group and consider their rifle zeroed.

Guy shooting next to me a few days ago was sighting in a nice 7mm Wby mag for an upcoming elk hunt in Colorado. Shot 6 or 9 rounds, best group was about 2" and he was done.

 

[Doug Casner]

Probably couldnt afford to shoot it anymore. Doug

 

[L.Sherm]

I've been shooting brass with the same headstamp - Federal - for all groups, but I also have some Lapua, Remington, and Hornady brass.

Best bet is probably to buy 100 x Lapua or Starline and keep the rest for non-critical stuff.

I know its all the same headstamp so was mine.
Use the Lapua and don't look back atleast in all likelihood your eliminating a variable.

 

[L.Sherm]

Probably couldnt afford to shoot it anymore. Doug

If you can't you shouldn't be out there.

 

[bulletpruf]

Probably couldnt afford to shoot it anymore. Doug

Well, he can afford a guided elk hunt in Colorado, so he can probably afford the ammo...

 

[D-4297]

From the FWIW Dept. ; Having cases that vary by more than .003 in over-all length can create a issue with bullet release , and may cause the "flyer" problem you speak of . Most Competitive shooters trim their cases to a consistent length , within , generally speaking , a maximum of .002 in length , to eliminate this possibility . Might give that a try , and pay extra attention to the Interference fit , ( Neck Tension ) and make that as consistent as possible . Beyond that ; Trigger time .

 

[bulletpruf]

From the FWIW Dept. ; Having cases that vary by more than .003 in over-all length can create a issue with bullet release , and may cause the "flyer" problem you speak of . Most Competitive shooters trim their cases to a consistent length , within , generally speaking , a maximum of .002 in length , to eliminate this possibility . Might give that a try , and pay extra attention to the Interference fit , ( Neck Tension ) and make that as consistent as possible . Beyond that ; Trigger time .

I plan to trim all cases to 2.005" moving forward.

With respect to neck tension, I am using an RCBS sizing die that's set up correctly, but that's it. I need to get smarter on this.

Thanks

 

[D-4297]

Load development is almost a science unto itself . Learning what works best is as different for each of us , and the rifle , caliber we shoot , as we are . Welcome to the Rabbit Hole .

 

[Doom]

I wish I had an accurate 22LR that I could use for a bit of practice, but I just have an old 10/22 that doesn't shoot groups worth a darn.

There is a remedy for that!

 

[Will Henry]

One poster suggested discarding brass which produced a flier. I was at a BR match one time, way back in the seventies. One of the competitors (I'll call him Andy) was experiencing quite a few fliers. He seized on the idea of eliminating the brass which produced the flier, as mentioned above. Every time a shot landed apart from the group, Andy would just toss the brass over his shoulder. He must have had a bunch of errant shots; he was throwing a lot of brass. So much so that he was plainly running a little short, and the fliers just kept on coming. After match three, I saw him surreptitiously wandering around and picking up brass. The moral of the story? Don't do that.
Shooting with a good .22 is excellent practice. Now, there is a limit to what a 22 will do, and you will occasionally have fliers which are the fault of the ammo, but you can certainly learn the value of consistency and follow-through. WH

 

[DShortt]

One poster suggested discarding brass which produced a flier. I was at a BR match one time, way back in the seventies. One of the competitors (I'll call him Andy) was experiencing quite a few fliers. He seized on the idea of eliminating the brass which produced the flier, as mentioned above. Every time a shot landed apart from the group, Andy would just toss the brass over his shoulder. He must have had a bunch of errant shots; he was throwing a lot of brass. So much so that he was plainly running a little short, and the fliers just kept on coming. After match three, I saw him surreptitiously wandering around and picking up brass. The moral of the story? Don't do that.
Shooting with a good .22 is excellent practice. Now, there is a limit to what a 22 will do, and you will occasionally have fliers which are the fault of the ammo, but you can certainly learn the value of consistency and follow-through. WH

Sage advice right here. And wind. Want to learn to read wind conditions? A 22LR will embarrass you in the wind. You'll figure out a lot, fast.

 

[Ccrider]

One poster suggested discarding brass which produced a flier. I was at a BR match one time, way back in the seventies. One of the competitors (I'll call him Andy) was experiencing quite a few fliers. He seized on the idea of eliminating the brass which produced the flier, as mentioned above. Every time a shot landed apart from the group, Andy would just toss the brass over his shoulder. He must have had a bunch of errant shots; he was throwing a lot of brass. So much so that he was plainly running a little short, and the fliers just kept on coming. After match three, I saw him surreptitiously wandering around and picking up brass. The moral of the story? Don't do that.
Shooting with a good .22 is excellent practice. Now, there is a limit to what a 22 will do, and you will occasionally have fliers which are the fault of the ammo, but you can certainly learn the value of consistency and follow-through. WH

I suggested eliminating pieces that were causing fliers. Come up with your own method for doing this.

A 22 is not going to help solve your problem unless you have a 22 and ammo that will shoot tight groups. Easier said than done. If you don’t, you will be seeing fliers caused by inconsistent 22 ammo.