Who else is bothered?

[grauhanen]

Manufacturers in different countries make different kinds of the same things. For example, how many American equivalents are there of sports cars such as Porsche or Ferrari, to name only two? Brands such as Mercedes, BMW, Audi have fewer American equivalents.

It's less straightforward to make successful "high end performance" products than those that meet a more everyday demand. Reliable profit margins for .22LR match ammo are not as easily established as they are for more standard fare.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I do think some US Co. could make high level 22LR ammo, they choose not to spend the time and effort. I am super pissed about 155mm shell production in US.

 

[wkdickinson]

Well, and that's the other caveat.

Whomever tries this will have to convince someone to promote this match grade ammunition AND they will have to prove it's up to the task. Then it'll have to be repeated by multiple people.

And still hope it sells well.

It's not a sound business venture.

I disagree. With the shortage of quality RF ammo in the USA (and I assume world-wide), people would quickly try it and if it truly was "as good" or better than say Midas+ or even CX, at a similar price point, they couldn't manufacture it fast enough. I think the real issue is, can better RF ammo really be made or are we at the pinnacle of quality/performance now?

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I'm with ya. It's close to embarrassing. Of the four companies you listed, I'm not sure that one could find one that has ammo capable of making a dependable squirrel hunting round. It didn't use to be that way. JME. WD

I "Hunt" for a Good, Copper Plated, HP, "Game Load" for, Rabbits, Squirrels and Sage Rats.
Sometimes, I get Lucky and Find, a "Good Lot", ( 333 rds, Bulk Box ) of 36 grain copper plated, Winchester HP's.
When I NEED, sub 1/2 inch @ 50 yards, "Precision", I have stockpiled, many Boxes of,. Wolf Match Extra, SK Standard Plus and Pistol Match at, REASONABLE Prices, a couple of Years ago, Before Chit got, Crazy Pricey.
Sadly you gotta spend Money and Test constantly to Find, ANY descent .22 LR Hunting Ammo !
IF, they "Hardened" the Lead with, a Tiny Bit more Antimony, the Federal Auto Match, would Be, "Good Stuff" !
It shoots "Good" But, is FILTHY ( Soft Lead ! ) and I Hate to Clean, my 10-22 Ruger every 6 Boxes of Ammo !

 

[CharlieNC]

China proved they can make everything, but that does not assure they possess the know how to make the best quality. Same applies to the US producing low to mid range commodity quality products. A tremendous amount of expertise was lost as a result of nafta etc shipping manufacturing out of the US, probably gone for the foreseeable future.

 

[TRSR8]

I disagree. With the shortage of quality RF ammo in the USA (and I assume world-wide), people would quickly try it and if it truly was "as good" or better than say Midas+ or even CX, at a similar price point, they couldn't manufacture it fast enough. I think the real issue is, can better RF ammo really be made or are we at the pinnacle of quality/performance now?

Friend…a history lesson.
For all the guys that bitch & moan about lack of US made match quality ammo, The Federal experiment is a lasting legacy.
They invested big $ , R&D, specialty tooling, and absolutely not nearly enough people bought it to make it financially viable. They took a bath, sold off everything and absolutely ZERO could induce any domestic company to relive that disaster.
As referenced….you want a Porsche, you go to Germany…you want a Ferrari, you go to Italy….at least in this lifetime.

 

[Tommie]

Who else is bothered by the fact that American companies, CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester are incapable of producing true match grade .22 LR rimfire ammo?

They’re very capable.
It’s a business decision.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

You think you're bothered with the lack of a US ammo maker producing quality ammo to compete against Lapua and Eley.

if there was a maker you would be really bothered on what you would pay!

Lee

 

[AR Shooter]

Who else is bothered by the fact that American companies, CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester are incapable of producing true match grade .22 LR rimfire ammo?
The email response I got from CCI was…
“We manufacture Green Tag, and this is out top tier rimfire offering, and has proven to be very competitive.”

Well............. you are 1/4 correct. Winchester ammo is owned by Olin, an American company. However, CCI, Remington & Federal are all owned by CSG, which is a Czech company. With a longer time horizon than the CEO's next bonus, perhaps they will start making Gold Medal Match or similar ammo once again.

 

[wkdickinson]

Friend…a history lesson.
For all the guys that bitch & moan about lack of US made match quality ammo, The Federal experiment is a lasting legacy.
They invested big $ , R&D, specialty tooling, and absolutely not nearly enough people bought it to make it financially viable. They took a bath, sold off everything and absolutely ZERO could induce any domestic company to relive that disaster.
As referenced….you want a Porsche, you go to Germany…you want a Ferrari, you go to Italy….at least in this lifetime.

I shot a lot of Federal "Gold Medal" (if I recall the name correctly) back in the 80's or 90s. But times were very different then, 22 shooting was mostly "position" shooting with a sling and was not all that popular. As I know you are aware, RF shooting in general has exploded in popularity in the last 5-10 years, hence the scarcity of high quality ammo. We can agree to disagree, but I think it is very much like the Emerson quote - "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door". But in this case, it only has to be "as good", but available.

 

[davidjoe]

Remington does own Eley, the boxes have “Remington” printed on them.

Lapua is a small division of Nammo - shortened derivative of the words Nordic Ammunition Company, a partnership that includes Scandinavian states. They have proven very hard to run with.

Federal was the last true American competitor in the high end match ammo market.

These 2 hour matches can now burn through the same cost in ammo as an f-class match.

There may be roughly the same number of serious shooters in both disciplines, which is two say the number in each that shoot two or more actual matches every month is probably no more than 3,000 in the country.

I’m shooting ABRA matches in the popular class of OLL with maybe 200 names on the rankings in the entire US.

These aren’t huge markets. It’s the case of a relatively small number of people spending a large amount of money on an individual basis, but not so much that it’s tempting for a manufacturer to make a move on Lapua and Eley.

If someone were to, it should be Hornady, in my opinion, as they have already demonstrated a willingness with A-Tips to go try something over the top in an important segment of the accuracy market.

 

[Zonkers]

I don't blame them - it's just business. I don't care where it comes from if it is good and I can afford it. Sometimes when I see this question, I feel like some people are wanting something that shoots like Lapua, Eley, or SK, but at reduced prices. I had some good results with Federal Auto Match the other day while playing around with my T1X at 50yds.

I want something that shoots like Lapua , Eley and SK and enough inventory that I can lot test without buying blind or waiting months before there is an inventory to buy from. I’m willing to pay more for it than bulk plinking ammo. The U.S. ammo industry is not resilient just like our amino acids and vitamins that we consume and are sourced from foreign companies.

 

[grauhanen]

Remington does own Eley, the boxes have “Remington” printed on them.

Remington doesn't own Eley.

 

[Janeau]

Remington had a batch of RF made by Eley and had the Eley and in the corner Remington.. Remington do not own Eley - Eley Group of UK own it.
They have been making ammo since 1828 , very old British company, they also make other ammo than RF.

 

[joshb]

Not long ago and with the CZ, I had some forgotten and rat holed
Remington Target. The 50 round box had a price tag on it of 87 cents.
It grouped as good as some of the high end ammo but not as good
as my R-50. Only had a box and a half. Shame.....

Yup! I tried a bunch of Tenex and other fancy stuff in my new to me old Mauser 22 bench rest gun. Tried some Remington and it liked it best!

 

[davidjoe]

Remington had a batch of RF made by Eley and had the Eley and in the corner Remington.. Remington do not own Eley - Eley Group of UK own it.
They have been making ammo since 1828 , very old British company, they also make other ammo than RF.

I should have known that a US entity (if it even was so back then) was not in a position to acquire one, abroad. Eley Match is the “sweet spot” where the quotient of performance for price peaks. It’s marvelous. (Don’t confuse our one-track minds ).

 

[DShortt]

So, who believes that if a company based in the US produced .22lr match ammunition in the US that they would buy it over other sources and be dominant in competition?

Isn't that the upshot of this thread?

There's hype. There's reality. This is a path previously traveled.

 

[Frankr]

Yes! Here is what I have thought about. Like I’d hit that power ball for 1Billion. Start a match RF ammo co. Make the best match ammo in the world. My thoughts were getting a quality work force in today’s market that you could afford to pay and still make a profit. I thought this would be the biggest hurdle. But if you could make match ammo that could win matches and produce it at a reasonable retail price. Say 18.00 a box. You absolutely would sell all you could make. You could sell it worldwide. Now if it’s 39.00 a box you would sell some but not as much. So being able to produce it at a reasonable price would also be a challenge. You more than likely would have to make everything in house to optimize prices and quality control but then that leads to some talented high priced employees. But a company like CCI has half the battle won. I would think even if they made decent useable match ammo they would sell all they could make.

 

[houligan]

Maybe I missed something, but I have the impression that Eley and Lapua are NOT using different tooling to make different grades of 22 ammo. I understand that they are lot testing and the Tenex, Match, Midas, CenterX and so on are by lot quality. Same machines, same lead, same brass, etc. etc.! Is that impossible for American manufacturers? As someone said above, "if you build a better mouse trap, they will be at your door down to buy it"! It doesn't take long with the internet now for the word to get around. If you grade to higher standards, the word will travel fast. If you grade a lot # to plinking standard, and label it MATCH, that word will get around quick also. If American 22 ammo makers started giving some top ranked shooters free quality graded ammo, like they DO for trap and skeet shooters, people will buy and shoot what they shoot. The ammo makers proved that themselves. I personally know some trap and skeet shooters that are getting target loads FREE, by the skid! If better lot testing will get the job done, DO IT! You DON"T see American clay target shooters shooting foreign shot shells! American made only!

 

[SilverEagle]

If we EVER want this idea of top shelf American made MATCH grade rime-fire ammo to see the light of day, then we as the community of people who are going to use this ammo need to tell the manufacturers that we WANT it…