Old version Labradar question

[danny]

I bought an old version Labradar at an almost steal of a price last year and did not get to try it until today. I know it's no longer state of the art, but it can still do what it always used to do. It's a huge step up, especially in ease of use over my Shooting Chrony, which I avoided using because it was a pain in the rear. I set it up, kind of unprepared, even using the app. Based on all of the horror stories, I expected problems and unrecorded shots. Well, right from shot one out of the gate, it recorded all but one shot. That shot was unrecorded because I either let it fly as the armed condition was timing out or had already timed out. That's on me, not the unit.

i have only one question. At the time, I had it set to display results at 20, 40, 60 and 80 yards. (maybe 100, too).

Most shots did record at 20, 40, 60 and 80 yds. Every now and again, you might get results at 20, 40, 60, then 80 (or one of the other distances) would only show "-". What is going on when some of the yardage intervals come up with missing speeds and display as - ?

Danny

 

[charlie b]

It means the signal wasn't strong enough to record a velocity at that range. I find the smaller and faster the bullet the more likely it is to not track all the way to 100yd. You can see the degradation of the signal in the individual track file for that shot. FWIW, if all of your shots show a lack of data at range it might indicate the device is not aimed well enough.

Another problem you can get is with slower bullets that have a lot of drop, like pistols. I suspect they drop far enough to be out of the 'cone' for the radar.

 

[danny]

It means the signal wasn't strong enough to record a velocity at that range. I find the smaller and faster the bullet the more likely it is to not track all the way to 100yd. You can see the degradation of the signal in the individual track file for that shot. FWIW, if all of your shots show a lack of data at range it might indicate the device is not aimed well enough.

Another problem you can get is with slower bullets that have a lot of drop, like pistols. I suspect they drop far enough to be out of the 'cone' for the radar.

Since you mention those things, out of any of the issues mentioned, I suspect aiming. I was shooting .308 loads with 168 Sierra MK.

Danny

 

[Fuj]

I've had mine pretty much from the beginning. I never set mine
to read various yardages. I just use it for muzzle velocity, and the
ES and SD of the shot. Keep life simple. I will enter bullet weight
for hunting rounds for energy ft/lbs output.

 

[cdgaydos]

The original Labradar gets a lot of “heat” for issues that have been addressed by newer chronographs. When it originally came out it was absolutely amazing… now many who praised it are highly critical of it.

In reality (now and then) it is not perfect. It is more “picky” regarding aiming… the primary improvement with newer models. However, it is actually more powerful than these newer models in some respects. It has more “power” and can track bullets out to ~100 yards. This allows some attempt to calculate BC directly (without relying on drop over distance). It is also very accurate.

Newer versions have focused on size and ease of set up. They have addressed both of these issues very well. This came at a cost in terms of power and maybe a slight loss of accuracy. However, the designers chose well and the new models are amazing. Set up is now a breeze and eliminates a lot of issues that were likely due to operator error (poor positioning).

I only say this because there has been a lot of hate towards the original Labradar… the new ones are better but the original is still good and in a couple of ways better…. Tracking speed over a distance is one thing… and if you don’t want to forget it at the range, the big orange box is easy to see.

 

[charlie b]

I agree. The only time I ever used the individual shot track data was calculating the BC of cast bullets.

I also think if the Labradar folks had addressed some of the earlier issues, like phone/tablet compatibility, they would have had a more loyal following. That power was also an issue when folks had a lot of metal objects on their range and when on crowded ranges.

 

[GLShooter]

I never use the down range numbers as the big three are what I need for my purposes. I bought it when it hit the market and was ecstatic.

The only glitch I had was the SD acted full at 406 strings. I called them up and they helped me out. They did say they'd never had anyone store that many on the card before.

The only thing that bugged me performance wise was the 3900 FPS max. I know that was due to legal issues but nevertheless a pain. I shoot many wildcats that 4000 FPS is the starting speed for their working envelope.

The last factor drive me to the GARMIN that I really really like. It's been pretty glitch free.

As an aside I no longer have the LabRadar. Last week I boxed up the unit with the bag, two lithium battery packs, the benchrest plate and a cheap 4X scope attached to the sickest aiming mount I've seen that I got early in as the notch deal and I didn't get along.

I passed it along to an 80 year old fellow in Oklahoma that I've helped with for years since I sold him a Black Hole barrel that has been great. He's on a very tight budget as are many of us guys past 70. I figured why not as we all enjoy helping our fellow shooters . The only thing that hurt was the $57.00 FEDEX cist...lol

 

[danny]

I never use the down range numbers as the big three are what I need for my purposes. I bought it when it hit the market and was ecstatic.

The only glitch I had was the SD acted full at 406 strings. I called them up and they helped me out. They did say they'd never had anyone store that many on the card before.

The only thing that bugged me performance wise was the 3900 FPS max. I know that was due to legal issues but nevertheless a pain. I shoot many wildcats that 4000 FPS is the starting speed for their working envelope.

The last factor drive me to the GARMIN that I really really like. It's been pretty glitch free.

As an aside I no longer have the LabRadar. Last week I boxed up the unit with the bag, two lithium battery packs, the benchrest plate and a cheap 4X scope attached to the sickest aiming mount I've seen that I got early in as the notch deal and I didn't get along.

I passed it along to an 80 year old fellow in Oklahoma that I've helped with for years since I sold him a Black Hole barrel that has been great. He's on a very tight budget as are many of us guys past 70. I figured why not as we all enjoy helping our fellow shooters . The only thing that hurt was the $57.00 FEDEX cist...lol

The only issue I have is, like you, the high end fps limit, as I shoot 17s. Why was that due to "legal issues", though? My use on those I consider less critical, so that will have to be. My real use is for LR Service Rifle and determining if loads will stay supersonic. That it will do. For my 17s, I probably still could set up my "Beta Master"? (printer and remote) Shooting Chrony, but I think for that, it might end up with "what I get is what I get" and not checking on the speed. One thing I will do, because I heard issues with the battery cord socket loosening is to get one of these magnetic attaching cords. You plug the little magnet male plug in, the leave it in, then attach the cord to it magnetically.

Danny

 

[GLShooter]

My understanding was it was legislation that restricted the power output strength on the radar so was limited in some way to the 3900 figure. It's way past my pay grade.

 

[powderbrake]

I have an older version of the Labradar, (I think), and have kept it up to date by downloading the latest firmwear.
It is fairly reliable (I only use it on rifles), and when I added the remote trigger, it became almost flawless. I am only interested in Velocity, Ave Velocity, ES and SD, so I haven't touched any of the settings in years.

Aiming is important, and I have a 12" long 1/4 diameter brass tube that slides into a slightly larger tube fixed to the top of the Labradar. looking down that tube , the 100 yard targets are easy to see, and the ball head on my travel tripod allows me to get on target easily.

I have a Chrony and a Magnetospeed which I don't use because the Labradar is so reliable, easy to set up while the range is hot, and I can control it with my Iphone.

The remote control is the best feature. Since the labradar is near the end of the barrel, I can't reach it when in my shooting position. So Arming and Disarming, starting a new Series, and reading the Ave Vel, ES and SD can all be done on the iphone. This is extremely important for me, as I have a form set up for each load I am trying, and I transfer the Ave Vel, SD and ES to the form, which gets filed with the target.

I have seen the number of buttons (4 or 5 I think) you have to push on a Garmin to get to those figures (after you get up to get the Garmin). With the iphone it is one button (the + sign) on the disarmed page, and a new series is shown. This is the primary reason that I have not bought the Garmin. I am going to try to find out how many steps are needed in the Athalon unit.

The setup I have to do with the Labradar is much greater than with a Garmin, but I have it, so I use it.

 

[NF1E]

Used the LabRadar for some time and had no complaints. When I picked up the Garmin, it was so easy to use the LabRadar just collected dust. Whatta Hobby!

 

[danny]

I have an older version of the Labradar, (I think), and have kept it up to date by downloading the latest firmwear.
It is fairly reliable (I only use it on rifles), and when I added the remote trigger, it became almost flawless. I am only interested in Velocity, Ave Velocity, ES and SD, so I haven't touched any of the settings in years.

Aiming is important, and I have a 12" long 1/4 diameter brass tube that slides into a slightly larger tube fixed to the top of the Labradar. looking down that tube , the 100 yard targets are easy to see, and the ball head on my travel tripod allows me to get on target easily.

I have a Chrony and a Magnetospeed which I don't use because the Labradar is so reliable, easy to set up while the range is hot, and I can control it with my Iphone.

The remote control is the best feature. Since the labradar is near the end of the barrel, I can't reach it when in my shooting position. So Arming and Disarming, starting a new Series, and reading the Ave Vel, ES and SD can all be done on the iphone. This is extremely important for me, as I have a form set up for each load I am trying, and I transfer the Ave Vel, SD and ES to the form, which gets filed with the target.

I have seen the number of buttons (4 or 5 I think) you have to push on a Garmin to get to those figures (after you get up to get the Garmin). With the iphone it is one button (the + sign) on the disarmed page, and a new series is shown. This is the primary reason that I have not bought the Garmin. I am going to try to find out how many steps are needed in the Athalon unit.

The setup I have to do with the Labradar is much greater than with a Garmin, but I have it, so I use it.

I would not be able to arm the Labradar without the app, either, so moving forward, any chronograph that replaces it must be able to be operated (iff needed), by some kind of remote.

Danny

 

[chromatica]

I own one of the large orange units and it works just fine for me. I added an aftermarket external trigger and now every shot gets recorded. I am a HAM radio operator and I have come to understand that that large antennas are better both for receiving and transmitting. I am sure the Labradar is as large as it is because of the internal antenna.

The OP said he was "unprepared" for his first outing. If he didn't set up the projectile weight properly, that could lead to undetected readings. I believe the unit expects bullets with a large mass to generate more energetic reflections. Setting the Projectile Mass helps the firmware figure out what size signal to expect when a reflection occurs. IOP, if you set this parameter to the exact weight of your bullet, your readings will likely become more reliable.

Another setting that can smooth out your operation is trigger level. I have found when the trigger is set too sensitive, just cycling the bolt can cause the Labradar to trigger and generate a false reading. There are five trigger levels, so just play with those different thresholds until you get consistent triggering without any spurious readings. There is also a setting to tell the unit you have an external trigger rather than to rely on the muzzle blast.

 

[ricco1949]

I never use the down range numbers as the big three are what I need for my purposes. I bought it when it hit the market and was ecstatic.

The only glitch I had was the SD acted full at 406 strings. I called them up and they helped me out. They did say they'd never had anyone store that many on the card before.

The only thing that bugged me performance wise was the 3900 FPS max. I know that was due to legal issues but nevertheless a pain. I shoot many wildcats that 4000 FPS is the starting speed for their working envelope.

The last factor drive me to the GARMIN that I really really like. It's been pretty glitch free.

As an aside I no longer have the LabRadar. Last week I boxed up the unit with the bag, two lithium battery packs, the benchrest plate and a cheap 4X scope attached to the sickest aiming mount I've seen that I got early in as the notch deal and I didn't get along.

I passed it along to an 80 year old fellow in Oklahoma that I've helped with for years since I sold him a Black Hole barrel that has been great. He's on a very tight budget as are many of us guys past 70. I figured why not as we all enjoy helping our fellow shooters . The only thing that hurt was the $57.00 FEDEX cist...lol

I really like your scope aiming mount idea. Do u have a photo? Seems like a single ring and base would do it and be easily removable.

I mounted a 2 inch sighter tube which works better than the notch but still misses some shots on initial aiming. Your scope idea has me thinking...

With LRs selling for under $100 your scope mount seems like a good option.

I've recently tried a friend's Garmin...hard to beat current tech.

 

[powderbrake]

Here is how I aim my Labradar
1/4 outside diameter brass tube 12" long, slides in a short piece of 9/32 OD tube, silicone rubber glued to top of Labradar. I sprayed black paint in the long tube ID to knock down reflections. Nesting brass tubing is available at a local hobby shop, or at K&S metals or on Amazon. Rubber ring on end of tube to keep me from hitting it with my eye. Tube stores in the fabric Labradar case along side of the Labradar.
Very accurate aiming, at 100 yards.

 

[divingin]

If he didn't set up the projectile weight properly, that could lead to undetected readings. I believe the unit expects bullets with a large mass to generate more energetic reflections. Setting the Projectile Mass helps the firmware figure out what size signal to expect when a reflection occurs. IOP, if you set this parameter to the exact weight of your bullet, your readings will likely become more reliable.

You sure about that? I was under the impression that the bullet weight was simply to calculate power factor (or energy, or whatever they call it.) I don't think LR uses the plugged in value to adjust sensitivity.

 

[danny]

You sure about that? I was under the impression that the bullet weight was simply to calculate power factor (or energy, or whatever they call it.) I don't think LR uses the plugged in value to adjust sensitivity.

That's my understanding as well, only to calculate power/energy numbers.

Danny

 

[danny]

Here is how I aim my Labradar
1/4 outside diameter brass tube 12" long, slides in a short piece of 9/32 OD tube, silicone rubber glued to top of Labradar. I sprayed black paint in the long tube ID to knock down reflections. Nesting brass tubing is available at a local hobby shop, or at K&S metals or on Amazon. Rubber ring on end of tube to keep me from hitting it with my eye. Tube stores in the fabric Labradar case along side of the Labradar.
Very accurate aiming, at 100 yards.

View attachment 1692033

View attachment 1692035

I bought one of those bolt on sights, and honestly, I think even that is too loose aiming wise. I am going to look into modifying my accessory sight with a tube that is longer, similar to how you did this.

Danny

 

[charlie b]

FWIW, I used the little notch in the top to aim since I bought it. Only let me down a couple times and that was with long range cast bullets (have to aim well above the target).

I did recently print up one of the cross hair bolt on sights. It works well, but, for long range still have to aim it a little high.

To calculate BC I do NOT use the main numbers in the averaged track file. Go to the individual bullet tracks. They give 'exact' distance at which each data point is generated. Pick two, subtract to get distance and plug into a BC calculator. It does not have to be a 100yd track. It can be 40 or 60 yd. Of course the longer the better. Do that for 5 or 6 tracks and you can get a good idea of the BC. I've only used that for cast bullets.

My only two complaints with it are the size and the lack of decent interface with android phones. Since I shoot from a bench it isn't that big a deal to reach forward and arm it for each string.

If I were looking for a chrono and didn't want to spend the money for a Garmin I'd get the original Labradar. Much better than the screen types unless you have a permanent range setup and an Oehler