The falacy of tap rack bang

[ORjeff]

Maybe it makes sense if you are shooting factory ammo and/or you're in a gun fight but.....once again my propensity for thinking before acting saved the day.

A G20 which has never had a feeding issue, low power practice rounds, tapping steel while waiting for my rifle to cool, going slow, working on my form and looking good/making the shots. No weird sound, it did go bang, but I didn't see the hit on or off the target. Something clicked inside and I looked down to see that the case didn't fully eject. Weird, and very lucky as that prevented the next round from loading.

My second squib load ever, last one was over 10 years ago.

IF I had done what they say to do in those videos...tap/rack/shoot the result would have been sub optimal. The bullet had gone far enough down the barrel that the next round would have been able to chamber and fire. I'm happy to not know what happens after that.

So, let's assume 1000 rounds per year, then after 10 years that's 10,000 rounds without a failure so a failure rate of .0001 or .O1% which means a success rate of 99.99%. That promotes complacency but it's kinda like that big earthquake that's going to rock the Pacific NW someday... every day nothing goes wrong doesn't actually increase the probability that tomorrow will be good but decreases it. It's not about if, but when. So.... don't forget that we are all falable, it's only a matter of time before something bad happens. Every time you pull the trigger, take an extra moment to think about it first.

 

[precision1]

Vast majority of squibs are primers not seated correctly.i guess any of them can be a dud I reckon.

I've stopped people from firing rounds after a shot that didn't sound right and yes it was squib loads.could have been bad

Reason I seat by feel not some measurement or setting from priming tool

 

[DRK]

IF I had done what they say to do in those videos...tap/rack/shoot the result would have been sub optimal. The bullet had gone far enough down the barrel that the next round would have been able to chamber and fire. I'm happy to not know what happens after that.

With Glocks typically you will see the barrel bulge and crack, not let go. I do not recommend it in any event, BTDT.

 

[Court178]

It's not about if, but when. So.... don't forget that we are all falable, it's only a matter of time before something bad happens. Every time you pull the trigger, take an extra moment to think about it first.

Very good advice.
I was at the range shooting with a buddy of mine. I was using some "low power" reloads. I've been using these loads for years in my guns with no issues (Glocks, XDM's, and Sig's). He had a CZ Shadow that he was shooting. We used some of my reloads in his gun. After about 30rds we had a squib load. Luckily we hesitated and caught it before anything bad happened. Needless to say. When shooting if something doesn't sound right or feel right "STOP" and investigate. No more reduced loads for his gun.

 

[expiper]

Was there gunpowder in the cartridge or did the primer push the bullet up into the barrel?... Roger

 

[Court178]

If you're referring to my post. I'm not quite sure. I use a powder check attachment on my Dillon XL650 but who's to say that I didn't miss one. When you get going and get into a rhythm after awhile you can get complacent. I could have short stroked one or missed one clearing a jam. All of the bells and whistles don't mean a thing if we don't pay attention to them. I also know that Dillon's are notorious for spilling powder during the cycle if you don't ride the rail with your finger and don't get in a hurry.

 

[divingin]

Couple of weeks ago, I was ending up my day with 50 rds of 9mm out of a CZ P01 (I swore off 9's for a lot of years, but finally broke down and bought one.) Anyway, loaded up 5 CA spec mags, and went to town on a B8 target at 12 yards. I usually get the 50 rds off in half a firing session - just slow enough that I don't get yelled at. About 24 or so rounds in, I get a really soft recoiling and muted-sounding round. Quick look at the target showed no errant hole. Cleared the pistol, and stuck my thumb in the port, rotated the pistol and saw light on my thumb, but it looked a little dimmer than I was expecting. Broke the thing down, found the barrel was clear. Reassembled and contnued shooting, and with about 4 rounds left, had another one. Same thing: More recoil than just a primer, but maybe a 5th the recoil of the rest of the ammo. Again everything checked out as clear, and no errant shots. Odd thing is, I load based on primers, so 100 rounds at a time, then separate them into 50 rd bags. So that session had to have another bag from the same tray of primers, though I'm unsure when that was used. But I haven't had another recurrence of that in the last 200 or so rounds. No idea if it was bad primers or short charges or what. I'm loading on a Hornady AP, and each piece of brass gets decapped and sized, so a polishing media occluded flash hole is unlikely.

 

[Hipshoot]

I am pretty sure Glock does NOT advise using reloaded ammo in their handguns as well as lead bullets.

Doesn't mean S76t can't happen with factory ammo!

I feel that using low powered loads in a Defense style handgun is a real NO-NO!

 

[mauser284]

Maybe it makes sense if you are shooting factory ammo and/or you're in a gun fight but.....once again my propensity for thinking before acting saved the day.

A G20 which has never had a feeding issue, low power practice rounds, tapping steel while waiting for my rifle to cool, going slow, working on my form and looking good/making the shots. No weird sound, it did go bang, but I didn't see the hit on or off the target. Something clicked inside and I looked down to see that the case didn't fully eject. Weird, and very lucky as that prevented the next round from loading.

My second squib load ever, last one was over 10 years ago.

IF I had done what they say to do in those videos...tap/rack/shoot the result would have been sub optimal. The bullet had gone far enough down the barrel that the next round would have been able to chamber and fire. I'm happy to not know what happens after that.

So, let's assume 1000 rounds per year, then after 10 years that's 10,000 rounds without a failure so a failure rate of .0001 or .O1% which means a success rate of 99.99%. That promotes complacency but it's kinda like that big earthquake that's going to rock the Pacific NW someday... every day nothing goes wrong doesn't actually increase the probability that tomorrow will be good but decreases it. It's not about if, but when. So.... don't forget that we are all falable, it's only a matter of time before something bad happens. Every time you pull the trigger, take an extra moment to think about it first.

Well sadly tactical shooting is trendy even when it is not smart! Every situation should not be treated like real life combat where it is do or die.

So sometimes having some common sense is important. Ever seen a team depart a helicopter 100-200 feet above ground level at night because the first guy went early and the rest of the team followed the first guy? Happens all the time when they do not wait for the light and the crew chief to give them the go ahead! Training is great, having a plan is great, team work is great but sometimes commonsense is good too! I watched my Dad have to pull a man out of the handgrenade pit in Basic Training. People do stupid things because they where ordered too, too afraid to question a situation, too much group think, etc....

 

[AccelR8]

I've had two incidents both with factory ammo. One, I took a first time shooter out with my S&W Model 28 and white-box Winchester 357 Mag ammo. Weak round, made a "put" sort of sound and stuck a bullet in the barrel.

Other event, AR15 and Tulammo (yeah I know but it was given to me to "try out"). In a class, I was to drop the mag and eject the last round (live round) from one stage, lock bolt open, go over to the next stage. New mag, chamber (hit bolt release) and go. Well, bolt wouldn't close all the way when chambering the round. I racked the CH again, still no bolt close. Instructor is repeating loudly, That's why you have a forward assist! Use it! I chose to excuse myself to go find out what was wrong. It turned out to be a bullet stuck in the barrel from that last live round I supposedly ejected at the end of the previous stage.

 

[Deputy819]

The Department of Criminal Justice Training here in Kentucky (where I went through Firearms Instructor Course) now teaches “Tap, Rack, Assess”. The days of “Tap, Rack, Bang” are over.

 

[cavedweller60]

The Department of Criminal Justice Training here in Kentucky (where I went through Firearms Instructor Course) now teaches “Tap, Rack, Assess”. The days of “Tap, Rack, Bang” are over.

Just to be clear, its tap, rack reassess, not assess (at least in the few dozen classes I took in reference to firearm tactics in three different states). Also, the "reassess" portion of that drill is to reassess your surrounding environment and determine if there is a need for more shots. It isn't to reassess your weapon to ensure its status (although that would be recommended as well).

If used the way it is taught, the tap, rack, reassess procedure wouldn't have helped at all in this circumstance.

 

[precision1]

Don't really need to think about pulling trigger first.just gotta make sure you put powder in your case.lol

I was being nice and not pointing out the obvious cause I figured you would get told repeatedly double check everything you do reloading..lol

Tap rack blah blah..lol

Take a flashlight and shine in every case to make sure there's powder and not a double charge or no powder ..

Figure I'd add this since no one else did

 

[coldboreshot]

I am pretty sure Glock does NOT advise using reloaded ammo in their handguns as well as lead bullets.

Doesn't mean S76t can't happen with factory ammo!

I feel that using low powered loads in a Defense style handgun is a real NO-NO!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[coldboreshot]

OP, I'm getting a mixed signal in your opening statement regarding tap-rack-reacess videos as some type of culprit or misleading information.
The problem at hand is running low power reloads in a firearm which is designed for a standard of ammunition, based on spring weight to cycle the slide properly to the proper energy of the fired round, etc.
God bless the fact that you did not follow the process at the time but if anything would have severely happened, its not the fault of a training video and is not the demon in that circumstance, the demon at hand is incorporating a variable in which the firearm is not prepared for...uncertain handloaded ammunition! Very glad you were not injured in any way but let's put the blame were it belongs in this case.

 

[Deputy819]

Just to be clear, its tap, rack reassess, not assess (at least in the few dozen classes I took in reference to firearm tactics in three different states). Also, the "reassess" portion of that drill is to reassess your surrounding environment and determine if there is a need for more shots. It isn't to reassess your weapon to ensure its status (although that would be recommended as well).

If used the way it is taught, the tap, rack, reassess procedure wouldn't have helped at all in this circumstance.

“Just to be clear”….did you post that simply to split hairs over the use of the word assess vs. reassess? Or maybe just because you wanted everyone reading this thread to know your VAST KNOWLEDGE of firearms tactics in 3 states? The rest of your post is common knowledge in the world of firearms instruction. Once more the IGNORE button comes in handy. See ya!

 

[Richard Jones]

Vast majority of squibs are primers not seated correctly.i guess any of them can be a dud I reckon.

I've stopped people from firing rounds after a shot that didn't sound right and yes it was squib loads.could have been bad

Reason I seat by feel not some measurement or setting from priming tool

That is not my take on what causes a squib. What makes you say that?

I've only been associated with 2. Was RO'ing a guy at a match and stopped him. No powder. It was very obvious. The other was no powder in a .243.

In the both cases, the bullet didn't go far enough to have another round chamber. Both primers looked fine.

Glad that you caught it.

 

[cavedweller60]

“Just to be clear”….did you post that simply to split hairs over the use of the word assess vs. reassess? Or maybe just because you wanted everyone reading this thread to know your VAST KNOWLEDGE of firearms tactics in 3 states? The rest of your post is common knowledge in the world of firearms instruction. Once more the IGNORE button comes in handy. See ya!

Wow, sensitive.

To answer your question, no, that isn't why it was posted. I wanted "to be clear" that people, in a defensive situation, shouldn't be "assessing" the status of their weapon in a situation as mentioned above, they should be continuing the fight.

I'm terribly sorry that you would rather have someone, during a deadly situation, focusing on something other than fighting .

Its sad that you are so sensitive that having something you made an ambiguous comment about, clarified, causes you to take your ball and go home.

If you ignore me for that, I guess I will survive.

 

[dellet]

The only thing fishy about the original post, is that @ORjeff has never had a feeding issue, no stove pipe or failure to eject in over 20 years and 20,000 rounds ( two squibs at the rate of 1/10,000) of low pressure loads. Most people aren’t that lucky.

For most people it would be how many squibs have you experienced, per malfunction.

Of course always checking for a barrel obstruction is the safest thing to do. But in the real world, sometimes the safest isn’t the most practical. Sometimes you only get to choose where it’s going to hurt, not if.

Then again, I’ve never seen the point of using low power loads to practice form, since recoil management is a huge part of form. But that’s a different discussion. It’s great the OP had the time and used it, too make sure all was safe.