When trying to make weight, run a thinner barrel profile or flutes?

[ISS]

I have been in contact with a gunsmith that's shop is six (!) miles from my house. Not a time zone or two away. We chatted about half an hour about standard 300 VS Improved. When a gunsmith tells you what he and his wife are shooting, that carries a lot of weight. So, yes! I will opt for the Improved version. I can also take advantage of his local knowledge. He says I will be competitive fire forming the brass at the two local (within an hour of me) 1000 yard ranges. Although I am sad to find out the closest one is actually only 970 yards. Make do with that.

I very much like the proximity, but I also understand not to be a pest.

I would very much like to thank all of you here for an informative discussion about the "Big Thirty's" here. One thread runs back six years here. I stayed up until three AM reading all the posts.

thanks friends,

ISS

 

[Will Henry]

I have fluted a whole bunch of barrels for other people. I have never fluted one of my own. If I want to reduce the weight or change the balance, I change the contour. That would always be my first choice. Oh yeah, with a 34 inch barrel, my first choice would be to whack 4 inches off the length. WH

 

[searcher]

I have read a number of articles on the fluting process inducing additional stresses into the barrel - and which go further to discuss the merits of fluting before the barrel is drilled or after rifling is completed. It seems there are many ways for a good barrel to go sideways in accuracy after fluting. Since I can't make any definitive conclusions - I'd go thinner profile or whack off the end if need be. I've only had one custom rifle barrel fluted - and the fluting was done by the barrel manufacturer (top name brand). I've always wondered if it might have been a tad more accurate had I not fluted. It is accurate - but not as accurate as the other 10+ non-fluted barrels I have purchased from that same maker. Coincidence? Maybe. I'd NEVER flute a match barrel - no way, sir.

 

[Doug Beach]

I’ve fluted 4.5-5.0 oz off a few HV FTR barrels. All cut rifled. They all performed very well in the hands of an excellent shooter. 8 flutes, 19” long by .050” deep, with an 1/8” radius convex cutter.

 

[Oso]

Thinner profile 100%.

I’ve read a few papers on the benefits of added rigidity achieved from fluting a larger diameter barrel as compared to simply selecting a thinner barrel profile to make same weight. My concern is always impact of fluting on barrel harmonics. Out of concerns around maintaining barrel harmonics I’ve balanced weight by barrel length.

Your response caught my attention. Can you explain your preference. Genuinely interested in your insight.

 

[Sandstorm]

There has been some discussion on barrel harmonics being slightly better in a HV profile.
I dont have any actual testing done on my part...just what Ive herd from some rifle builders.
I shoot a straight taper 1.25 and always have, but im curious to perhaps explore it sometime, as
my rifles are pushing the weight limit pretty close.

 

[243winxb]

Shorter or thinner.

 

[222Jim]

I have been in contact with a gunsmith that's shop is six (!) miles from my house. Not a time zone or two away. We chatted about half an hour about standard 300 VS Improved. When a gunsmith tells you what he and his wife are shooting, that carries a lot of weight. So, yes! I will opt for the Improved version. I can also take advantage of his local knowledge. He says I will be competitive fire forming the brass at the two local (within an hour of me) 1000 yard ranges. Although I am sad to find out the closest one is actually only 970 yards. Make do with that.

I very much like the proximity, but I also understand not to be a pest.

I would very much like to thank all of you here for an informative discussion about the "Big Thirty's" here. One thread runs back six years here. I stayed up until three AM reading all the posts.

thanks friends,

ISS

Fluting will reduce the weight, although only slightly. As to rigidity, the fluting doesn't strengthen a barrel relative to it's unfluted size; it reduces it and it's reduced by the decrease in the average diameter of the barrel. How so? If you could magically add ridges or "anti-flutes" to a smooth barrel, that's increase rigidity, and taking material away reduces it.

As to stresses, yes, fluting adds stresses, but depending upon whether or not the barrel is heat treated to reduce/remove those stresses, and the skill of the gunsmith, those stresses may be too small to impact precision.

I'm all for reducing barrel length to save weight.

 

[WSnyder]

on the fluting process inducing additional stresses into the barrel

As to stresses, yes, fluting adds stresses,

It may be semantics but you aren’t inducing or adding stress by fluting, you might be relieving stress that was already there before the fluting process.

 

[222Jim]

I found this YouTube video informative when it comes to "flute or not", and "why, or why not?".

https://youtube.com/watch?v=AnVzOux3KBI&si=pR1ruu6rY5e9BwGh

 

[DShortt]

Thinner profile 100%.

I trust your experience but if you don't mind taking the time, is there a particular reason or is it experience based?

 

[searcher]

It may be semantics but you aren’t inducing or adding stress by fluting, you might be relieving stress that was already there before the fluting process.

You highlight my point "might". When fluting any barrel, threading for a muzzle brake, etc. - one never truly knows the effect on accuracy as it will affect that particular barrel until it is done. While there will certainly be cases where stresses are relieved in a fluting process - that will depend on the particular barrel, and where the stresses are relative to where the fluting is being applied. I respectfully disagree with you about not adding stress when fluting. One can't machine steel without stresses being changed and they are not all in the form of being relieved. It is only because of that unknown factor that I'd sway from the fluting option if accuracy is paramount. If fluting only relieved stress and it was a known and proven method to do so, this would be the chosen method over other attempts at de-stressing, such as cryo, etc.. Just my thoughts...

 

[WSnyder]

I respectfully disagree with you about not adding stress when fluting.

You don’t “add” anything including stress when removing material. Simple as that.

Edit: It might add some stress to my life when that material moves after I removed some material from it

 

[222Jim]

You highlight my point "might". When fluting any barrel, threading for a muzzle brake, etc. - one never truly knows the effect on accuracy as it will affect that particular barrel until it is done. While there will certainly be cases where stresses are relieved in a fluting process - that will depend on the particular barrel, and where the stresses are relative to where the fluting is being applied. I respectfully disagree with you about not adding stress when fluting. One can't machine steel without stresses being changed and they are not all in the form of being relieved. It is only because of that unknown factor that I'd sway from the fluting option if accuracy is paramount. If fluting only relieved stress and it was a known and proven method to do so, this would be the chosen method over other attempts at de-stressing, such as cryo, etc.. Just my thoughts...

Agree........the plastic deformation and localized heating that occurs when steel is cut adds stress. The skill of the gunsmith, as a skilled craftsman, can minimize those stresses, but the added stress isn't "zero". Those stresses can be relieved through heat treating.

 

[222Jim]

No mention in this post yet of carbon wrapped barrels as a means to reduce weight. I've got no experience with them other than pros and cons I've read online. Thoughts?

 

[DShortt]

You don’t “add” anything including stress when removing material. Simple as that.

Edit: It might add some stress to my life when that material moves after I removed some material from it

I find that to be a much greater problem when dealing with woods. I'd never 'cut it' as a woodworker. Makes my right eye twitch just thinking about it.

 

[WSnyder]

I normally pre-flute blanks before chambering but in my last batch of barrels that I sent out for fluting I included one already chambered (Bartlein Sendero profile in 6.5mm) that had been shot a fair amount and had a known record. After it came back the POI changed maybe an inch? With the same load accuracy so far is better overall than before. So with that one example not much changed at all after fluting. I have two more I'm going to have fluted and I'll see what happens with them.

 

[gary ocock]

After a half hour swim in my pool; after a 7 hour day in my shop. and having a sip of Tequilia over ice I feel compelled to add to this thread. I am a short range group shooter; going on 53 years of competitive experience. When I moved to Az. I didn't have my own shop, so a good friend Chuck MIller let me use his shop to screw around building guns and trying different stuff. Long story--short version. Over a 2 plus period I fluted many barrels for myself. I would buy a HV taper barrel, chamber and shoot it, if it shot good I would then flute it to make LV-SP wt. 10.5 lbs. Every single barrel that I decided to flute; shot as good if not better after it was fluted. Maybe 10 barrels over a 2-3 year period. They were both cut rifled and button barrels. The 2 most accurate barrels I have ever shot on a LV-SP were both fluted. I don't shoot fluted barrels today as I don't have the setup; or the time and or the motivation to flute. However my experience was 100% good with the fluting process. And BTW I was at times removing close to 1lb off the barrels.

Gary

 

[Ccrider]

Maybe 10 barrels over a 2-3 year period. They were both cut rifled and button barrels. The 2 most accurate barrels I have ever shot on a LV-SP were both fluted

Thanks for posting. Nothing like actual real world experience to answer a question.

Now I am sure the statisticians will step in and argue that actual results from 10 barrels is not statistically significant.

 

[davidjoe]

After a half hour swim in my pool; after a 7 hour day in my shop. and having a sip of Tequilia over ice I feel compelled to add to this thread. I am a short range group shooter; going on 53 years of competitive experience. When I moved to Az. I didn't have my own shop, so a good friend Chuck MIller let me use his shop to screw around building guns and trying different stuff. Long story--short version. Over a 2 plus period I fluted many barrels for myself. I would buy a HV taper barrel, chamber and shoot it, if it shot good I would then flute it to make LV-SP wt. 10.5 lbs. Every single barrel that I decided to flute; shot as good if not better after it was fluted. Maybe 10 barrels over a 2-3 year period. They were both cut rifled and button barrels. The 2 most accurate barrels I have ever shot on a LV-SP were both fluted. I don't shoot fluted barrels today as I don't have the setup; or the time and or the motivation to flute. However my experience was 100% good with the fluting process. And BTW I was at times removing close to 1lb off the barrels.

Gary

Did a bunch of those 10.5 pound gun barrels end up at Bruno’s (before I found them) about 1 to 2 years ago?