Bolt vs Gas Gun question

[RBT321]

Newbie wonders...

I know that bolt guns *tend* to be more accurate than gas guns for long distance, and I understand how the process of recycling the gas from the barrel to run the gun cycle can have an adverse effect on accuracy, but I was wondering if one of the biggest issues isn't actually barrel length?

The vast majority of long distance bolt action barrels seem to fall into the 26-30 inches range and the extra length generally seems to help accuracy, whereas the vast majority of gas guns have much shorter barrels with anything over 20" being relatively rare.

So would a well-designed long barrel actually help improve the accuracy on a gas gun?

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Not sure if this helps but I routinely shoot a 16” barreled “ bolt gun” at 1k and it puts a lot more in the 10 and X rings than in the 9 ring. Take for what ever you make of it.

 

[LVLAaron]

If you're talking accuracy (precision) at long range - Yes, a gas gun with a longer barrel and a bullet carrying more velocity will give you a better chance of small groups.

Accuracy (precision) potential is greater in bolt guns... You can make very accurate gas guns, but there are a lot of moving parts (no pun intended) to manage.

 

[Big_Daddy]

Not sure if this helps but I routinely shoot a 16” barreled “ bolt gun” at 1k and it puts a lot more in the 10 and X rings than in the 9 ring. Take for what ever you make of it.

Damn impressive shooting!
Curious as to what caliber you are shooting?

 

[ELR LVR]

Newbie wonders...

I know that bolt guns *tend* to be more accurate than gas guns for long distance, and I understand how the process of recycling the gas from the barrel to run the gun cycle can have an adverse effect on accuracy, but I was wondering if one of the biggest issues isn't actually barrel length?

The vast majority of long distance bolt action barrels seem to fall into the 26-30 inches range and the extra length generally seems to help accuracy, whereas the vast majority of gas guns have much shorter barrels with anything over 20" being relatively rare.

So would a well-designed long barrel actually help improve the accuracy on a gas gun?

not barrel length sir,
Barrel quality
---------------------------
I've worked on, fixed and built a few AR-10's
The most obvious accurate one was one I installed a krieger 22" barrel on.
Not much longer than the others which were 20" Aero's
But at 1000 yds, the Krieger was noticeably more consistently accurate
Velocity has little to do with accuracy
They were humming 175's at around 2500 fps
The 2nd most accurate Rig was a 16 inch Sig 716
6 inch groupings at 700 yds from not myself but a guy who doesnt even shoot long range
So again, a quality 16 inch(SIG) was worlds beating out budget Aero 20" upper/barrel
----------------
a 6.5 Creed I am working on, shot approx 4 inch groups at 600 with factory ammo so far.
For a gas gun, that more than meets my criteria of expected accuracy in a semi.
Recoil has some to do with accuracy
So a reciprocating bolt happening during the recoil event is going to have at least a slight impact compared to a bolt rifle which everything is still during the recoil event

 

[jackieschmidt]

I know shooters who have taken great pains to make an AR platform to shoot at the same level of precision, or accuracy as a top flight bolt rifle.

The simple fact remains that many of the things that contribute to the. bolt action’s capability is missing in the Gas Gun.

I still look at it as two different platforms for two different applications.

 

[Mark M.]

Newbie wonders...

I know that bolt guns *tend* to be more accurate than gas guns for long distance, and I understand how the process of recycling the gas from the barrel to run the gun cycle can have an adverse effect on accuracy, but I was wondering if one of the biggest issues isn't actually barrel length?

The vast majority of long distance bolt action barrels seem to fall into the 26-30 inches range and the extra length generally seems to help accuracy, whereas the vast majority of gas guns have much shorter barrels with anything over 20" being relatively rare.

So would a well-designed long barrel actually help improve the accuracy on a gas gun?

Most likely yes

 

[Varminterror]

I was wondering if one of the biggest issues isn't actually barrel length?

I have had a handful of 26" and 2x 29" AR's. Barrel length is NOT why AR's are less accurate, typically, than a bolt gun.

A well built gas gun will shoot small groups, but a well built stick shift is simply a tighter built, tighter running, easier driving, more accurate machine.

And of course, barrel length really isn't a direct contributor to improved accuracy, on any action type.

 

[LVLAaron]

Gas guns are my favorite.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Damn impressive shooting!
Curious as to what caliber you are shooting?

6BrX 107 smk “ specialty pistol”

 

[Hal]

LVL

THAT one is a HAMMER .

What are you shooting?

Hal

 

[LVLAaron]

LVL

THAT one is a HAMMER .

What are you shooting?

Hal

Krieger 7.7 twist. I worked over, gauged, and measured every part of this one. I shot it in AR-Tac class (F-Class) - 80 grain SMK, Wolf Primed Brass, and AR-Comp

 

[Hal]

LVL

Keep doing what you’re doing. It works very well.
If I have AR questions I’ll know who to ask.

Hal

 

[RBT321]

Thanks guys, it helps me to understand things a little bit better.

So my take-away is that the quality of the gear is paramount, but in general principle, yes a longer barrel should help accuracy (precision) on both types of rifle. Though the caveat is that merely increasing the velocity by using a longer barrel is not the determining factor - there are many more factors at play. And clearly, both types can be made to be very good shooters.

Thanks!

 

[Varminterror]

in general principle, yes a longer barrel should help accuracy (precision) on both types of rifle.

“In general principle,” no, a longer barrel will have a longer moment arm and will be more prone to flexion and whip than will a shorter barrel, which is detrimental to accuracy. Again, in general principle.

The easiest comparison for raw potential of AR’s vs. bolt guns is found in competition - the only precision or accuracy based divisions where AR’s arr competitive are handicapped divisions where proper bolt guns are not allowed G3, AR-Tac, Gas Gun Div in PRS, etc.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Any long range(300 yd+) accuracy requires minimal vertical dispersion. Consistent BC and muzzle exit velocity are factors. Gas guns have parts which can complicate consistency.

 

[jelenko]

a longer barrel should help accuracy (precision)

How does a longer barrel improve accuracy/precision?

 

[Iowa Fox]

Not sure if this helps but I routinely shoot a 16” barreled “ bolt gun” at 1k and it puts a lot more in the 10 and X rings than in the 9 ring. Take for what ever you make of it.

Were you at the match's in Wyoming a couple weeks ago?

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Were you at the match's in Wyoming a couple weeks ago?

Sorry no,

 

[ELR LVR]

How does a longer barrel improve accuracy/precision?

well it gets you closer to the target, Duh
Just like the moon looks bigger in the Mtns because you're closer to it, Right?