NF Comp 15-55x52 or March. HM 10-60/Majesta 8-80x56

[Turbulent Turtle]

A little bit of history. The March-X 10-60X56 HM which introduced Super ED lenses to riflescopes, was created in 3 models: One with a wire reticle, one with an etched reticle and one with an etched illuminated reticle. The two models with the etched reticles are 2mm longer than then one with the wire reticle, as that accounts for the difference in thickness between the wire reticle and the etched reticle. If you wanted to get a reticle changed, you could not get a wire reticle in an etched reticle model or vice versa. I believe this was the same with the earlier 5-50X56 and 8-80X56 models.

When the Majesta was released, it introduced the massively larger FOV with its wide-angle eyepiece and it was offered in two models: MOA/MOA and MIL/MIL, the difference being the turrets and reticle. All the reticles designed for the Majesta are etched, there are no wire reticles. And it only comes with illumination.

DEON created a series of reticles that originated from the earlier models, adapting them to the wide angle of the Majesta and offered the MTR-WFD as a brand-new specialty reticle. I was not familiar with the MTR-WDOT, but when I look at it at the website, it does have the dot separated from the crosshair as jackie reported. I do not know why DEON went with that design for the Majesta, but it would be worth asking them.

 

[quest450]

I have the WDOT and it is perfectly fine for 600 and 1K benchrest

 

[avidflyer]

Not my experience at all.

In a week my scope was getting repaired and I had already received three emails keeping me informed of its progress.

Maybe I was just lucky?????
CW

That was the timeline I received via email from Mari Morita at Deon.

 

[tvaught]

Those still have the dot in between separated crosshairs that are way too far from the dot. That is the problem in Varmint for Score.

I do not want all of that crap cluttering up the sight picture. With a simple crosshair, you can go a line or two over, or even more, and still have a distinct reference in the vertical plain.

In my opinion, as a pretty decent VFS shooter, March brought out the finest second focal plain scope made and then offered reticles intended for first focal plain shooting.

For $4000+ dollars, why the heck can’t they furnish a simple crosshair hair.

Jackie

I don't think March thought a 40oz scope would be attractive to SR BR.

IF you thought its a competitive optic for that discipline, I'd hope to encourage you to (and other SR BR shooters) to let March know the reticle you'd like to see. Try to be as specific as possible. "Simple Crosshair" to one shooter means something different to another. As an example do you want the horizontal stadia offset for flag FOV, line thickness, etc.

Shooter feedback >drives investment/innovation > leads to the final product Competitors want.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Jackie

I don't think March thought a 40oz scope would be attractive to SR BR.

IF you thought its a competitive optic for that discipline, I'd hope to encourage you to (and other SR BR shooters) to let March know the reticle you'd like to see. Try to be as specific as possible. "Simple Crosshair" to one shooter means something different to another. As an example do you want the horizontal stadia offset for flag FOV, line thickness, etc.

Shooter feedback >drives investment/innovation > leads to the final product Competitors want.

As I have said, this scope will be dedicated for one Match, The TackDriver. Since we can go up to 22 pounds, the weight is a non issue.
A fellow contributor is going to give me a heads up on getting in touch with March representatives.
Until then, I am going to just stay put on the subject.

 

[foxguy]

I have a number in my phone for March in Washington State. I will call it tomorrow and see if it is still good.
If they tell me they cannot install a regular crosshair, (I’m willing to pay), I’ll sell it at a discount and get a Valdada.

It appears you will be in luck.

https://marchscopes.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/SFP-dot-size.pdf

Wishing you the best.

 

[Ranger188]

It appears you will be in luck.

https://marchscopes.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/SFP-dot-size.pdf

Wishing you the best.

I could be wrong but what you put up is for the standard HM scopes not
the Majesta. They use 2 different lenses.
@Turbulent Turtle would know.

 

[ELR LVR]

Wow, that sounds like someone who doesn't know how optics work. Or course a riflescope gets darker as magnification increases, they all do. The Comp at 80X is a lot darker than the Majesta, due to its 52mm objective. Oh, wait...

The amount of light coming into a riflescope is dictated by the size of the objective lens. The size of the image going to your eye (exit pupil) is a function of the objective lens diameter divided by the magnification. For the Majesta at 80X, the exit pupil is 56/80 = 0.7mm. At 55x, it would be 56/55 = 1.02mm.

This is correct,
A person is wise to understand the physics of just how a scope works,

Objective Size in mm / Power X = exit pupil size
And since our pupils only dilate to 5mm MAX
a 1.02mm exit pupil will look dark
Think of your pupil like a movie screen and the exit pupil size being directed on your eye is the projector
If you have a 4'x4' screen and only are transmitting a 1 foot dia. projection
Well...............physics states the area around that projection will be dark
(Why cant they just offer scopes with a big enough objective lense to make better use of the power rating
I wouldnt mind haha.)

 

[ELR LVR]

I

Not to mention how you are received and treated if you have a problem with the scope, one treats you like you mounted it backwards, don't know how to install rings, your rings are junk if they don't have an NF engraved on them, its your scope base and so on. Then they receive the scope and send it back and state we checked it out, nothing was wrong... it checked out OK! The other company treats you as a valued customer and acknowledges what you have to say, fixes the scope and tells you what was wrong and what they did to fix it.

Now which scope would give a person the most confidence in that scope when it comes back from being repaired.... I know which scope I would have confidence in. And it gets worse when the same scope has went down twice and the company still says it was ok and does not acknowledge anything was wrong with it but tells you its good to go.

had a bad experience with Nikon, (since they dont make scopes any more)
Recently had a good experience with Bushnell CS (they took over simmons and tasco so also offer warranty on those brand of products if in the right time frame after when they took over those companies.
I had a simmons with blotchy, inside lense
contacted them, my scope was before their time frame but they still offered me a 25% coupon on any bushnell product just for my trouble which is pretty nice of them.
Nikon kept fighting me, ignoring me, not replying, lost the scope they asked me to send in to them to inspect then turned around and said they dont repair scopes anymore???
until I got a little legal with them pointing out their supposed "LIFETIME WARRANTY" then reluctantly they offered me a coupon.
I am now of the mindframe to
Buy a scope NOT for it's warranty, but for its quality.
I'd rather it not break at all than feel good that it has a good warranty.
They never keep making the same scope forever so any replacement may be a type you dont really want
------------
I do like Bushnells warranty though, Lifetime (defined as 30 years) and transferrable to any new owner
not just the original purchaser

 

[JFrank]

NF comp at full power has an exit pupil of .945 , this seems small, regardless the scope is bright and clear at full power, somewhat flying in the face of previous claims of all scopes going dark.

 

[marchx]

we have much larger choice of optics today than 10 years ago. The market is much more competitive. Most of great scopes are manufactured for PRS and thus they don’t offer enough magnification for F-class or BR.

In Europe F-class wise we see mostly March HM and NF comp on the line, a few guys use Kahles. This year at nationals I saw like 4 people using Majesta. And you know what, they placed at the very top. I guess they just were lucky.

 

[Fuj]

NF comp at full power has an exit pupil of .945 , this seems small, regardless the scope is bright and clear at full power, somewhat flying in the face of previous claims of all scopes going dark.

Absolutely......J just did a side by side test to choose my best scope option
For Saturday's Pa Tack Driver lite. Set the scopes at 50x. The NF Comp was
the clear winner. Kahles was second, and the March X High Master was third.
just got the Kahles in on a trade......Now I did one more test. I have one Bushnell
XRS-3 that's at 36x. Setting scopes to match the Bushnell, The Bushnell is the
brightest of them all from point blank out to a cell tower a mile from our range.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

This is a tough choice. We still done have the perfect scope. The NF comp resolves slightly better. Still the best in that category. But I hesitate to recommend them if you dont have a scope checker. A solid NF comp is probably the best thing out there but I dont know if I will ever trust them until they come clean and admit there was issues and tell us how they fixed the issue. Plus, I dont like liars so it hard to recommend them period. March glass is March glass. If you have had them you know what I mean. Typically darker and you tell yourself its not that bad because it was $3-4k. March scopes are generally a lot more reliable. Now they are not immune. We have found issues with them on the scope checker too but its rare. I guess if they were both sitting on the table Id grab the March. I will be a lot more excited when a scope company gives us what we actually need. Just a basic competition scope with a limited mag range, excellent glass that holds zero every time. Thats it! Top glass/holds zero.
PS 1000yd BR records are mostly all agg records, which take 6-10 matches to complete. 3-6 months usually. Only the single target for group or score would be shot in a single match. Those agg records are in my opinion the most difficult of any record to break.

 

[foxguy]

I could be wrong but what you put up is for the standard HM scopes not
the Majesta. They use 2 different lenses.
@Turbulent Turtle would know.

You are correct, I had High Master on my brain?? I'm a Old Guy......

 

[JFrank]

guess they just were lucky.

Perhaps just good shooters that work hard and earn rewards. They’d likely finish well regardless of scope brands.

 

[marchx]

Perhaps just good shooters that work hard and earn rewards. They’d likely finish well regardless of scope brands.

that's what I was thinking. but maybe majesta gave them the edge.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

This is correct,
A person is wise to understand the physics of just how a scope works,

Objective Size in mm / Power X = exit pupil size
And since our pupils only dilate to 5mm MAX
a 1.02mm exit pupil will look dark
Think of your pupil like a movie screen and the exit pupil size being directed on your eye is the projector
If you have a 4'x4' screen and only are transmitting a 1 foot dia. projection
Well...............physics states the area around that projection will be dark
(Why cant they just offer scopes with a big enough objective lense to make better use of the power rating
I wouldnt mind haha.)

Let me just address the size of the objective lens in response to your last comment above.

As has been stated myriad times before, riflescopes are an assemblage of compromises. Let's dig into this one. Yes, a wider objective lens would provide for a larger exit pupil size, but there are downsides:

A wider objective means:

• Heavier scope (glass is heavy, and remember the square in the formula.) Also, the objective lens is actually a doublet, there are two big-ash lenses at the front.
• More expensive scope. That HM glass is expensive, Super ED glass is very pricey.
• Bigger scope, some setups have little room between the objective bell and the barrel.
• Smaller depth of field, which means more critical focus.

Just some thoughts on a nice Friday morning.

 

[ELR LVR]

NF comp at full power has an exit pupil of .945 , this seems small, regardless the scope is bright and clear at full power, somewhat flying in the face of previous claims of all scopes going dark.

Scopes don’t actively gather light. Instead, they transmit light, and some scopes do this better than others. The number and arrangement of lenses in the scope impacts light transmission.
Lens coatings greatly affect light transmission.
Coated vs Fully Coated vs MultiCoated
The different types of coating plays a major role in how well light is transmitted and how bright an object is front of you as well as in low light.

Besides the objective and ocular lenses, scopes will also have additional lenses inside the scope tube. There may be as many as say....ten lenses in a scope. Each of these lenses has its own purpose in providing a clear image, and each one also reduces the amount of light that reaches your eye.
Light is reflected and absorbed by each lense, so unless you’re looking through a hollow tube,
there is no such thing as 100% light transmission.
Maybe the NF Comp has one less lense or more expensive coating?

 

[ELR LVR]

Let me just address the size of the objective lens in response to your last comment above.

As has been stated myriad times before, riflescopes are an assemblage of compromises. Let's dig into this one. Yes, a wider objective lens would provide for a larger exit pupil size, but there are downsides:

A wider objective means:

• Heavier scope (glass is heavy, and remember the square in the formula.) Also, the objective lens is actually a doublet, there are two big-ash lenses at the front.
• More expensive scope. That HM glass is expensive, Super ED glass is very pricey.
• Bigger scope, some setups have little room between the objective bell and the barrel.
• Smaller depth of field, which means more critical focus.

Just some thoughts on a nice Friday morning.

If Mfgr's at least offered it like some used to
A large objective may be ahead of its time still.
US Optics used to offer one with like a 100mm Objective (cant find pics of it)
Maybe others will eventually follow suit again.
I know I don't mind a large objective and they now have mounts that can accomodate the scope being high enough to clear right?
I mean a 2mm exit pupil seems to be good enough
They're not going to be hunting scopes for sure lol, but now that scopes are being offered in 60x and 80x I don't know why they don't bump up the objective if some makers used to even as far back as Unertl
As far as weight goes
You ever seen a Cannondale bicycle?
Check out the Tube sizes compared to other bikes.
Well Cannondale knew that with larger dia, means you can go thinner while actually stiffening or keeping the integrity of the tube.
Then there's the option of Titanium or Magnesium, which is stronger than Alum
Heck Nikon used to offer a Titanium scope
or using possibly 7068 which is the strongest grade of Alum being stronger than many steels
Which would allow for thinner walls to help with weight.
People never would have spent $6K on a scope 20 yrs ago
They do now though

 

[JFrank]

Maybe the NF Comp has one less lense or more expensive coating?

I have no idea how they do it but they are remarkable. A guy doesn’t have to be an optics expert to look through a scope on a firing line and decide if it’s bright or dark. The darkest I’ve seen is my Golden Eagle, the brightest being NF Comp.