Seating into the lands...cant measure!

[ELR Harry]

Need help to figure out how far in i am seating without taking my barrel off every 100 rounds to do the drop in stick point test. Finding hard jam with a split case is not very accurate IMO but it's the only way I know to do it....is there a more accurate way to find "stick" point instead of "hard jam" with the barrel on? I would like to test increments of .002 or .003 in past stick point after the throat moves without taking the barrel off.
Thx Harry

 

[Bronsin]

The Wheeler method finds the touch point.

 

[JFrank]

Check the video on finding the lands

Videos | wheeleraccuracy

www.wheeleraccuracy.com

 

[a-dog]

You can strip the bolt, seat a bullet long, then chamber it. Seat the bullet deeper in small increments until you can lift the bolt without a click. This will be your touch point. This is very repeatable for me. With practice, you will get a feel for it.

 

[Kevin1990]

I also prefer the wheeler method. Before that I use a Hornady OAL gauge, and for me the wheeler method was a lot more accurate.

 

[Webster]

Need help to figure out how far in i am seating without taking my barrel off every 100 rounds to do the drop in stick point test. Finding hard jam with a split case is not very accurate IMO but it's the only way I know to do it....is there a more accurate way to find "stick" point instead of "hard jam" with the barrel on? I would like to test increments of .002 or .003 in past stick point after the throat moves without taking the barrel off.
Thx Harry

Can't you just try different seating depths and see what works best. Hard jam is just a made up term. Your old hard jam is a starting point just keep increasing the bullet length in 2 or 3 thou increments and see what works. Don't understand why you think you have to take the barrel to try different numbers. As the rifling edges wear I would think you would get goofy numbers, not related to jam with new sharp edges.

 

[6BR_DM]

Need help to figure out how far in i am seating without taking my barrel off every 100 rounds to do the drop in stick point test. Finding hard jam with a split case is not very accurate IMO but it's the only way I know to do it....is there a more accurate way to find "stick" point instead of "hard jam" with the barrel on? I would like to test increments of .002 or .003 in past stick point after the throat moves without taking the barrel off.
Thx Harry

Stick point finder tool. No need to remove the barrel.

Need help to figure out how far in i am seating without taking my barrel off every 100 rounds to do the drop in stick point test. Finding hard jam with a split case is not very accurate IMO but it's the only way I know to do it....is there a more accurate way to find "stick" point instead of "hard jam" with the barrel on? I would like to test increments of .002 or .003 in past stick point after the throat moves without taking the barrel off.
Thx Harry

Sorry - heres the link:
Stick point finder tool. No need to remove the barrel
Touchpoint finder tool:

 

[Rat Rifle]

You can strip the bolt, seat a bullet long, then chamber it. Seat the bullet deeper in small increments until you can lift the bolt without a click. This will be your touch point. This is very repeatable for me. With practice, you will get a feel for it.

^^This^^… then You know what absolute jam is for the neck tension You are using. You can’t jam any further and can only go backwards.

 

[Rank Amateur]

^^This^^… then You know what absolute jam is for the neck tension You are using. You can’t jam any further and can only go backwards.

@a-dog is basically describing the Wheeler method for finding touch, not jam. The Wheeler method will not discriminate lengths longer than a few thousandths beyond just touch.

 

[a-dog]

@a-dog is basically describing the Wheeler method for finding touch, not jam. The Wheeler method will not discriminate lengths longer than a few thousandths beyond just touch.

Correct, although you can feel (not very scientific) how far you are into the lands based on pressure required to open the bolt. I think this method works best because it is impossible to load a round past jam. Anything longer should, in theory, either deform the bullet or push it down into the case. Measuring touch allows you to set +/- seating lengths based on that number. I hate the terms touch and jam. It should just be a measurement to the lands.

 

[DaveTooley]

I have never shot anything jammed for long. Touching yes. Black Sharpie on bullet. As soon as I see the faintest of land marks that's my touch point, which is just a reference point for Me.

 

[243winxb]

Does jam not changes as a barrel gets dirty?

Love it when an unexpected ceasefire is called and ejecting the shell leaves bullet in rifling & powder in the action.
Always fun.

No jam for me.

 

[BoydAllen]

Old school "jam" was the the seating depth beyond which the bullet would be pushed back as the round was chambered, using the neck tension that would be used for loading, and a case that had fouling inside the neck the same as would be loaded. Unfortunately, since the time that this was the understood definition, I think primarily because of internet discussion by shooters who are not familiar with the old school definition. Jam has come to mean different things for different people. It is common for people to refer to any seating depth that is longer than touch as jam, or shooting jammed. I take it that hard jam refers to something that is equivalent to old school jam. In any case, back in the day when I was competing with a 10.5# 6PPC I never had a bullet stick, with .003 neck tension, that was seated .003 shorter than jam. I should qualify this by saying that I cleaned pretty often, shooting no more than 20 rounds or so between cleanings, and I was shooting 133, which is the cleanest rifle powder that I have used. These days I like to know what touch and old school jam are so that I know how much range I am working with. For touch I believe that the method shown in Alex Wheeler's video is the most sensitive and consistent.

 

[Webster]

^^This^^… then You know what absolute jam is for the neck tension You are using. You can’t jam any further and can only go backwards.

Great comment. The Jam you come up with is related to grip on the bullet. Grip is not the same as tension determined by subtracting 2 numbers.

 

[DLT]

Need help to figure out how far in i am seating without taking my barrel off every 100 rounds to do the drop in stick point test. Finding hard jam with a split case is not very accurate IMO but it's the only way I know to do it....is there a more accurate way to find "stick" point instead of "hard jam" with the barrel on? I would like to test increments of .002 or .003 in past stick point after the throat moves without taking the barrel off.
Thx Harry

Easy peasy. Slide the round all the way in with your pinky if it doesn’t fall out when rifle is tipped up it’s sticking in the lands. Push bullet back a couple thou. at a time until it does fall out on its own. Time consuming yes but not bad if you have a good idea where the lands are.

 

[ELR Harry]

Thanks for the guidance...i will try the stick point test DLT mentioned this eve after work. What i define as "hard jam" is when i run the split case with bullet in(stripped bolt) and its stuck so tight I have to knock it out with a cleaning rod. I know this is not "touch/stick" because my split case really holds the bullet tight, so tight i have a hard time starting the bullet by hand so i use the wilson seater. I see pretty long marks on the Dykem but i am not comfortable measuring the skid mark with a caliper and glass. maybe its my eyes but i just cant seem to get a consistent measurement...and am i overthinking this? if soft seating like many do the bullet always sticks a little. If its into the lands at any point the pressure spike should be pretty close to the same value i guess???

 

[DLT]

Thanks for the guidance...i will try the stick point test DLT mentioned this eve after work. What i define as "hard jam" is when i run the split case with bullet in(stripped bolt) and its stuck so tight I have to knock it out with a cleaning rod. I know this is not "touch/stick" because my split case really holds the bullet tight, so tight i have a hard time starting the bullet by hand so i use the wilson seater. I see pretty long marks on the Dykem but i am not comfortable measuring the skid mark with a caliper and glass. maybe its my eyes but i just cant seem to get a consistent measurement...and am i overthinking this? if soft seating like many do the bullet always sticks a little. If its into the lands at any point the pressure spike should be pretty close to the same value i guess???

Try it. The slimmer your fingers are the easier it is. Make sure your sized brass goes in and falls out on its own before loading a bullet to ensure proper sizing. If the round don’t fall out simply tap out from muzzle with cleaning rod. Remember the harder you push it in chamber the harder it is to tap back out. You will find as close to touch as possible using that method. It’s speedys method without barrel removal as it can be a pain off and on with nut barrels

 

[Rat Rifle]

@a-dog is basically describing the Wheeler method for finding touch, not jam. The Wheeler method will not discriminate lengths longer than a few thousandths beyond just touch.

You’re right, I see My error. I put to much emphasis on the first sentence.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I purchased a 1/8" diameter 30" acrylic rod and (2) 1/8" set screw collars. Easy to measure touch to hard jam from bolt face on my small caliber rifles. I use my Hornady bullet comparator with modified case to hold the bullet in place to set the collar lock. I think I spent 5 dollars total, plus with the Hornady tool you feel now firm the bullet is making contact with rifling. I need to pickup a 1/4" rod and collars for larger caliber barrels.