6mm Creedmore Performance on Game

[Turpentine]

I have always been adamantly against the 243 ever since I started hunting in the 70s. Where I live and hunt is pretty unfriendly for blood trailing game. I saw friends and acquaintances lose quite a few deer with one. They traded up to a 270 win and their kill ratio went way up. Now one of these guys (my best friend) did not shoot well at all. Couldn't hit a baseball well either for that matter! But even his kill ratio went up and the number of blood trails to nowhere went way down. And yes I have seen deer wounded and lost with most of the popular calibers. But the percentage of loss went up when the 243 was involved. Most of these guys shot Remington 100 grain Corelokts. Those do not produce large wound channel in my experience. One man that I knew used 100 grain hornady interlock bullets. And he could shoot. When he shot, you could bet he had meat on the ground.

Well fast forward about 40 years and I build my niece an AR in 6.5 Grendel when she was 7. She has killed a pile of deer with it and my brother (honestly one of the best or luckiest hunters I know) fell in love with the Grendel. He has probably killed 75 deer with the one I built for him. His daughter told him the first rifle was hers. Y'all know how that goes. I have 2 Grendel's myself and use them for depredation with thermal for deer and hogs. I won't go into kill numbers personally but it's a lot. I have built several of them for friends and their young kids. An AR with the adjustable stock in 6.5 Grendel makes a perfect starter gun for a kid to hunt with. With supervision of course. The Grendel with 123 eldm's or Sst's just punches way above its weight class. But we were talking 243 so I'll get back to that. Last year my brother had a 223 truck gun stolen and he happened to find a deal on a 6mm Arc. He bought some Hornady 103 Eldx's and he and his kids killed five does with it in December last year.3 dead in their tracks, one went 20 yards, one that was not hit well made it 50 yards. That got me thinking. Last year I bought a Ruger SFAR 6.5 Creedmore with a 20" barrel. I needed something with more reach for big fields. I've shot it, killed several deer with it. But I've found it a bit underwhelming performance wise with the 20" barrel. I have also had some issues with the barrel. Well just last week I made up my mind to have the barrel replaced and go to another cartridge. Something quick and flat shooting that has very little recoil. I do not have ranging capability with my thermal and judging rang at night is almost impossible. So I ordered a 22" medium heavy contoured barrel in the 6mm Creedmore for the SFAR. Truthfully there are very few original parts left on this gun. I plan on using 108 eldm's. My favorite bullet in the 6.5-06 and the Grendel. I may also try 103 eldx, the 95 grain Berger classic hunter, and the 95 grain Sierra TMK. Possibly the Sierra BTHP but for what I'm doing I like a higher BC bullet. Most of the deer I shoot are 150 - 400 yards. I can only shoot does on permit and they average around 90 pounds.
I may have to eat some crow on this deal. I hope so. I'll surely give it a good test run and report back. Only problem is the barrel may not make it in time for me to use it during this depredation period for deer. We shall see! I'm just anxious to see what this thing will do. If I'm right it should definitely improve my point blank range.

 

[ShootDots]

What kills game is blood loss from hemorrhaging and tissue destruction. Back in the 60s and 70s there were very few really good bullets. Now you have a TON of them. You have to get a projectile INTO the animal with enough expansion that the corresponding destruction of tissue by the jagged jacket from mushrooming or "peeling back" and slicing everything in it's path, destroying a lot of tissue, causing massive blood loss, is essential.. ENERGY also plays a part by exponentially aiding the bullet in tissue destruction. "Cup jacketed" bullets that were basically jackets folded around lead, were not the best at getting thru bones etc to get to the vitals. That style bullet was the mainstay of most bullets back in the 60s and 70s. With today's bullets, they are capable of amazing penetration. EXAMPLE: A good friend of mine and I were out in the Texas Hill Country hunting exotics. We were also encouraged to kill wild pigs. My friend had my 7mmRem Mag. shooting the 139 Hornady InterBond. There was a decent size pig running directly away from him. He put the crosshairs on it's butt and let'er fly. The bullet entered the rear end, travelled the entire length of the pig, then exited out his head! That is amazing penetration for a "light-for-caliber" bullet on a tough animal. So, using the 6 Creed on deer with a 100gr bullet, like the Nosler Partition or the AccuBond or similar bullet or the Barnes Triple shocks, you should be able to drive right thru the shoulder knuckle and into the boiler room and STILL get an exit would, leading to a good blood trail. But with no lungs, the deer isn't going far. Having said all that, SHOT PLACEMENT with a really good bullet is essential for a quick clean kill.

 

[Tikka6CM]

I’ve killed 200 plus whitetails with almost every caliber from a 223 to a 300 WSM.

A 6 creed slinging an 88gr Hammer Hunter bullet at 3300 fps kills them quicker than any combo I’ve ever tried. It’s like they are hit with Thor’s hammer. Sometimes they drop in their tracks even when not hitting the central nervous system and/or bone.

I have zero need/desire to hunt whitetails with a larger caliber.

 

[B23]

My daughter shot a decent size white tail this past fall with my 6 Creedmoor and 70gr Nosler BT. Shot was one and done. Dumped him on his nose game over.

 

[JB10]

I have no experience with deer with a 6 creed, but have killed 5 javelina with mine. 108 eldm have done the trick. Only one of them stayed standing after shot for about 4 seconds then flopped over. I would guess since it was about 15 yards from me it was too close for bullet expansion. Last years was 198 yards. Thing flopped over hard like got hit by a truck. My friend recorded it and man it was a hard hit. In October i took a muel deer buck and i bet the 6mm would have done perfect but too the 6.5 prc thinking might have a longer shot. But damn thing was only 75 yards away when i shot it.

 

[Clancy]

I shot my first 15 or 20 deer with a 222 and 50 grain Speers. Never lost one. I shot a dozen more with a 25-06 and 100 grain sierras. I did not lose any of those either.

I’ve shot small 6mm rounds (BR/WOA/BRA/GT) with bullets from 68-88 grains for the last 15 years. You guessed it…. Never lost one.

If you didn’t like a 243, a 6 creed won’t be any better. I don’t believe in blood trails on deer. They should fall in their tracks. Speed is your friend here.

None of the above applies if the hunter can’t place a shot.

 

[Jr solocam]

Pick a bullet, then pick the velocity you want, pick the actual cartridge last.

 

[Turpentine]

What kills game is blood loss from hemorrhaging and tissue destruction. Back in the 60s and 70s there were very few really good bullets. Now you have a TON of them. You have to get a projectile INTO the animal with enough expansion that the corresponding destruction of tissue by the jagged jacket from mushrooming or "peeling back" and slicing everything in it's path, destroying a lot of tissue, causing massive blood loss, is essential.. ENERGY also plays a part by exponentially aiding the bullet in tissue destruction. "Cup jacketed" bullets that were basically jackets folded around lead, were not the best at getting thru bones etc to get to the vitals. That style bullet was the mainstay of most bullets back in the 60s and 70s. With today's bullets, they are capable of amazing penetration. EXAMPLE: A good friend of mine and I were out in the Texas Hill Country hunting exotics. We were also encouraged to kill wild pigs. My friend had my 7mmRem Mag. shooting the 139 Hornady InterBond. There was a decent size pig running directly away from him. He put the crosshairs on it's butt and let'er fly. The bullet entered the rear end, travelled the entire length of the pig, then exited out his head! That is amazing penetration for a "light-for-caliber" bullet on a tough animal. So, using the 6 Creed on deer with a 100gr bullet, like the Nosler Partition or the AccuBond or similar bullet or the Barnes Triple shocks, you should be able to drive right thru the shoulder knuckle and into the boiler room and STILL get an exit would, leading to a good blood trail. But with no lungs, the deer isn't going far. Having said all that, SHOT PLACEMENT with a really good bullet is essential for a quick clean kill.

For this rig and the range I will be shooting a tougher bullet will be ok. Where the tougher bullet falls short is at the longer ranges where I'm killing deer out to 700 yards. I've killed 15 does in the past two weeks from 430-650 yards. And quite a few more plus a couple of hogs with the 6.5 creed and 6.5 Grendel at shorter ranges. I shoot high shoulder shots. Penetration has not been a problem. I shoot the 123eldm from a Grendel for deer shooting high shoulder and deer just drop. The SST works fine also. I use my 6.5-06 for the daytime 400-650 shooting in big bean fields with 147 Eldm's but I'm probably going to back up to 140s as they tend to expand a bit better at that distance. I really miss the old Amax. They were perfect for deer at 400 plus yards. I get to do a lot of experimenting with bullets shooting damage control spermits and have killed a couple thousand plus deer over the years with everything from longbow and cedar arrows to buckshot to rifles. Shot quite a few hogs too. Just have never shot anything with the 243/6mm class cartridges. My older shooting partner used a 6mm Remington for years however so I have seen them work. Another friend built a fast twist 243 and he really likes the 108 eldm's . I shot interbonds in my 270 for years and they were very good. They are scarce and expensive these days. These days I tend to like heavy for caliber cup and core bullets like the eldm but I may just try the eldx first in this rifle after seeing what they did in the 6mm Arc. I go through way too many bullets to go with expensive premiums in a depredation gun. I went through over 100 bullets just last week. I'm not one for monos at all. Price wise or performance at longz distance wise. They tend to need a lot of speed to work well. I picked the 6 creed because it offered very flat trajectory and low recoil in an AR 10 package. The deer I'm shooting are not big. 90-100 pounds avg. Spotting your shots, and staying on target for follow up is important with thermal. Being able to transition from one animal to the next quickly is very important.
Caliber choices for the SFAR are quite limited. I was fortunate enough to find a company that agreed to make a barrel for the SFAR platform. I'll have to see how that turns out and report back.

 

[Turpentine]

I shot my first 15 or 20 deer with a 222 and 50 grain Speers. Never lost one. I shot a dozen more with a 25-06 and 100 grain sierras. I did not lose any of those either.

I’ve shot small 6mm rounds (BR/WOA/BRA/GT) with bullets from 68-88 grains for the last 15 years. You guessed it…. Never lost one.

If you didn’t like a 243, a 6 creed won’t be any better. I don’t believe in blood trails on deer. They should fall in their tracks. Speed is your friend here.

None of the above applies if the hunter can’t place a shot.

I'm not perfect but I practice regularly out to 1000 yards with both the 6.5-06 and my 308. I'll also shoot my AR 10s out to 800 and the Grendel to 600. Placing the bullet in the right place has never been a problem for me. Where I live they do need to fall in their tracks. Trailing can be tough. I've trailed a lot for friends. Plus I've own a blood dog or two. But I don't believe in blood trails for deer either. That's why I started shooting them high shoulder 35 years ago.
I didn't like the 243 way back when. But with the advancements I've seen in bullet design and for my intended use it looked like it would be a good fit. So I decided to try one out. I'll see how it goes. But I doubt the barrel gets here in time to use it this depredation season on deer. I may get to shoot some hogs with it. Shooting damage permits it doesn't take long to to get a lot of experience with a particular setup. Some folks will shoot more deer in 2 months than many folks will in a lifetime.

 

[Turpentine]

I have no experience with deer with a 6 creed, but have killed 5 javelina with mine. 108 eldm have done the trick. Only one of them stayed standing after shot for about 4 seconds then flopped over. I would guess since it was about 15 yards from me it was too close for bullet expansion. Last years was 198 yards. Thing flopped over hard like got hit by a truck. My friend recorded it and man it was a hard hit. In October i took a muel deer buck and i bet the 6mm would have done perfect but too the 6.5 prc thinking might have a longer shot. But damn thing was only 75 yards away when i shot it.

I know first hand that a 140 or 147 grain bullet from that 6.5 PRC hits hard. I don't have the PRC though. I'm shooting a 6.5-06 that I built specifically to shoot deer at long range. But I've taken some short shots with it. Shot one this afternoon at 120 yards and 4 more between 540 and 650 yards. It gets it done. The PRC is just more of a good thing. I just had so much 270 and 30-06 brass on hand I figured the 6.5-06 was the way to go. It has worked very well.

 

[WyleWD]

I shot my first 15 or 20 deer with a 222 and 50 grain Speers. Never lost one. I shot a dozen more with a 25-06 and 100 grain sierras. I did not lose any of those either.

I’ve shot small 6mm rounds (BR/WOA/BRA/GT) with bullets from 68-88 grains for the last 15 years. You guessed it…. Never lost one.

If you didn’t like a 243, a 6 creed won’t be any better. I don’t believe in blood trails on deer. They should fall in their tracks. Speed is your friend here.

None of the above applies if the hunter can’t place a shot.

+1^^^^ Last 2 paragraphs say it all.

I've harvested most of my deer with the 243, some with the 6XC, and quite a few with the 6.5-06.

Most of the deer I've gotten are with the 243 using Sierra 85grHPBT. With the 6XC and the same bullet same results as the 243. Not a lot of difference between 6CM and 6xc so I'm with Clancy on this one. JME.WD

 

[ShootDots]

For this rig and the range I will be shooting a tougher bullet will be ok. Where the tougher bullet falls short is at the longer ranges where I'm killing deer out to 700 yards. I've killed 15 does in the past two weeks from 430-650 yards. And quite a few more plus a couple of hogs with the 6.5 creed and 6.5 Grendel at shorter ranges. I shoot high shoulder shots. Penetration has not been a problem. I shoot the 123eldm from a Grendel for deer shooting high shoulder and deer just drop. The SST works fine also. I use my 6.5-06 for the daytime 400-650 shooting in big bean fields with 147 Eldm's but I'm probably going to back up to 140s as they tend to expand a bit better at that distance. I really miss the old Amax. They were perfect for deer at 400 plus yards. I get to do a lot of experimenting with bullets shooting damage control spermits and have killed a couple thousand plus deer over the years with everything from longbow and cedar arrows to buckshot to rifles. Shot quite a few hogs too. Just have never shot anything with the 243/6mm class cartridges. My older shooting partner used a 6mm Remington for years however so I have seen them work. Another friend built a fast twist 243 and he really likes the 108 eldm's . I shot interbonds in my 270 for years and they were very good. They are scarce and expensive these days. These days I tend to like heavy for caliber cup and core bullets like the eldm but I may just try the eldx first in this rifle after seeing what they did in the 6mm Arc. I go through way too many bullets to go with expensive premiums in a depredation gun. I went through over 100 bullets just last week. I'm not one for monos at all. Price wise or performance at longz distance wise. They tend to need a lot of speed to work well. I picked the 6 creed because it offered very flat trajectory and low recoil in an AR 10 package. The deer I'm shooting are not big. 90-100 pounds avg. Spotting your shots, and staying on target for follow up is important with thermal. Being able to transition from one animal to the next quickly is very important.
Caliber choices for the SFAR are quite limited. I was fortunate enough to find a company that agreed to make a barrel for the SFAR platform. I'll have to see how that turns out and report back.

For me personally, I do not take shots much past 300 yards. But the principle is the same, you MUST get a good bullet into the animal with good expansion and it needs to be in the vitals. If you can do that, the animal will not last long..

 

[Tikka6CM]

I have no experience with deer with a 6 creed, but have killed 5 javelina with mine. 108 eldm have done the trick. Only one of them stayed standing after shot for about 4 seconds then flopped over. I would guess since it was about 15 yards from me it was too close for bullet expansion. Last years was 198 yards. Thing flopped over hard like got hit by a truck. My friend recorded it and man it was a hard hit. In October i took a muel deer buck and i bet the 6mm would have done perfect but too the 6.5 prc thinking might have a longer shot. But damn thing was only 75 yards away when i shot it.

Velocity causes expansion. More velocity causes more violent expansion. There is no such thing as “too close for expansion”.

 

[Turpentine]

For me personally, I do not take shots much past 300 yards. But the principle is the same, you MUST get a good bullet into the animal with good expansion and it needs to be in the vitals. If you can do that, the animal will not last long..

Exactly. The key is to find the bullet that will expand well and do its job within the impact velocity window at the distances you intend to shoot. I practice a lot out to 1000 yards in order to be sure I can put a bullet into vitals out to the distances I'm shooting. Good shot placement is always a must and I'm after quick humane kills. Im anxious to see what this 6mm will do.

 

[Turpentine]

+1^^^^ Last 2 paragraphs say it all.

I've harvested most of my deer with the 243, some with the 6XC, and quite a few with the 6.5-06.

Most of the deer I've gotten are with the 243 using Sierra 85grHPBT. With the 6XC and the same bullet same results as the 243. Not a lot of difference between 6CM and 6xc so I'm with Clancy on this one. JME.WD

I have no doubt that the 6mm creed will work. Or I wouldn't have gone with it. A large number of farmers around here use the 243 including the one that I shoot for. He tends to give me the larger fields with longer shots because he knows I shoot a lot. But I do want to try it and see for myself first hand. I tend to like a bullet with a higher BC or the 85 BTHP would truthfully be my first choice. And I may just use it anyway. I have a friend that shoots a 243 Ackley built by Kenny Jarret that uses that bullet. The plantation he manages does a lot of youth hunts and many of the kids he takes out use that rifle. It definitely works. Good to hear from another 6.5-06 shooter. I love mine.

 

[WSnyder]

So now that it’s been validated that the 6CM works on game can we talk about the 22CM???

 

[Turpentine]

So now that it’s been validated that the 6CM works on game can we talk about the 22CM???

While others have validated the 6 Creed and I certainly believe what they are saying, I tend to like to see things with my own eyes. I have seen what the newer bullets are capable of in other calibers though.
This was intended to be a light hearted thread. Mainly about me changing my mindset through the years enough to try something I never would have thought I would. So talk about whatever you want. I have a couple of 223 Wylde's and thought about doing a little experiment myself but I don't see myself hunting deer, particularly bigger, heavier bucks with 22 caliber projectiles. I prefer my 308s or 6.5-06 for that.